s3oc - IMG issue

[orangemittens]

This is a little thing that is easily corrected by unticking the defaults button but I thought I'd mention it so you're aware.

I have recently updated to:

Front-end Distribution: 1003-14-1747
Library Distribution: 1003-14-1747

but the same issue was occurring in the version I replaced it with and with s3oc_1003-06-2138 (which I got when I thought I was downloading 1747 but somehow ended up with this version and then redownloaded and got 1747). The version I had before was the last version from December (1729?..maybe?)

Anyway, the issue is that when you clone certain objects, in this case the mirrorDesigner, with the defaults only checked the mask IMG doesn't show up. Here is a pic of what I get:

http://jaue.com/om/s3ocmask.jpg

If I clone the same object with the defaults only unchecked I get the mask IMG also. With my last version of s3oc this also occurred with the 3-tile glass top dining table and it also happened for another mesher. It only happens for certain objects because I know I've cloned other things and not had this happen (and that was with my previous version. I haven't cloned anything but this mirror with the current version)

I'm on Vista with the (86) thing and if I've left out any information you need I apologize for that. I can provide any other information you need.

Oh, and I have the base game only with no patches. I don't know what the other mesher has.

And I also apologize ahead of time if this is some mistake I'm making...I'm certainly not gonna deny that this could be the case.

Thanks for all the work you're doing on s3oc and s3pe too...I can't tell you how much I appreciate it. :)

[Inge Jones]

Please could you either show me a screen shot of the resource you need that is left out, or give me its name anyway?

[orangemittens]

I apologize Inge...I knew I'd bork my report somehow.

Anyway, if I unclick the default resources this is what I get (the red star is by the IMG resource I'm looking for...it's the red/green IMG that determines where parts of a map are assigned for patterning in the game):

http://jaue.com/om/s3ocmask2.jpg

I hope this is the information that you need. If it isn't I will do my best to provide better information.

[Inge Jones]

OK that's not one of the things we call a "common resource" so there isn't a *good* reason why it's not coming in. I'll have to explore.

[orangemittens]

Thank you Inge. I wouldn't have even posted about this issue except that when you're trying to add channels it does become a little bit of a confusing thing. I appreciate you taking a look at it. :)

[Inge Jones]

Edited: Ok this is how I see it, having examined the contents of the material blocks versus the images required by the basic scenegraph chain for the object... The default only tick brings in the latter, but as soon as you start wanting to change the composition of the colorways offered in the catalog, you really need that default only box unticked. I am afraid at the level you're wanting to work at, you're going to need the two pass method, bringing it all in and deleting the images you know you do not want to edit.

What I can deduce is that you could have a different mask, specular or multiplier for each colourway (material block). For another project you may well wish to create a copy of the mask and give it its own unique IID to link in with one of the material blocks etc etc. Therefore I think you're in two-pass territory at your level.

[orangemittens]

The first time I noticed this was during a conversation in cmo's tutorial about enabling patterns here:

http://www.modthesims.info/showthread.php?t=394144&page=1

For that dining table I mentioned above, I thought as you did, that the dining table was using a tiny red rectangle. But in the conversation it became clear that it doesn't use that. It uses the one named mask that you only get in the package with the default box clicked off.

I saw the same issue happening when I cloned the Designer mirror because I didn't have an IMG with the word mask in the name but I know it should have one from the situation with the dining table. Although, I have to admit, while I'm positive about the dining table one, I haven't gotten to the changing the IMG part for the mirror I'm working on so I'm only guessing that it's going to be the same.

eta: ok...lol...ignore all that above. I was writing it while you were editing. Thanks again for looking into this :)

[Inge Jones]

It's all interesting as observation, anyhow. Even the xml named the tiny image as being the one for the mask. I am going to see which one TSRWorkshop thinks it should be...

Later: Ok Workshop goes straight to the material blocks (where your larger mask was linked from), and displays them each via a dropdown. This is *similar* to turning off default resources only, though of course the graphical interface of TSRW makes it not so overwhelming to see them all in your resource list :D

[orangemittens]

Was that for the mirror or the dining table? For the dining table I know the one with mask in the name is the right one. For the mirror I'm only guessing based on experience with the dining table.

eta: oops...I did it again...I posted while you were editing. It sounds like the answer still is what you said above. If we want to change the mask IMG for some items we're going to have to bring in all resources and then delete the ones we don't want...right? It isn't a big issue once you're aware that this is true. I'm just going to have to get over my anxiety that I'll delete something the object actually needs by accident...lol.

[Inge Jones]

Yes, TSRW found the large mask that you wanted. It is in the material blocks in the OBJD/xml complex and therefore would be found there by cloner with default resources unticked. Default resources are traced via the VPXY scenegraph chain and represent the minimum needed to make a clone. Mostly this agrees with the first colourway, and would be similar to deleting resources from all but the first material block. Not sure why EA decided to make this handful of objects different to this general rule.

You don't *need* to delete anything, but of course your package will be larger than necessary if you don't. Mostly all those ones that talk about wavy grains and eggshell are part of the general texture repository shared by many objects, and those are the ones you can delete before renumbering. Your object will continue to find them in the texture files.

[orangemittens]

"Not sure why EA decided to make this handful of objects different to this general rule..."

Probably just to make people pull their hair out...lol.

I appreciate the explanation of how things work and why this IMG isn't getting pulled in with the defaults. I also see how there's really no way to pull it without getting all the others you don't want. Thanks again :)

[HugeLunatic]

Actually OM I have found that cloning with the renumber box unchecked and the default resources unchecked is really beneficial. I clone with those boxes unchecked then I export my mesh and make changes to it while in the unrenumbered state. I always leave the original clone as is so in case I screw up I can go back to that clone. Any resource that I don't change (within reason) from the clone I delete before renumbering.

So far the FTPT, RSLT, _RIG, LITE, XML and IMG's I've had no problems removing from the package. What happens is when the object is renumbered it leaves those references alone since they are not in the package. I've tried other things...and well my game goes asplodey. ;)

Oh, and I also had the mask not be pulled with a clone. But I have no idea which object is was and I just uncheck the default boxes anyway now.

[orangemittens]

Thank you for the advice :) Two questions...if you put the unrenumbered clone into the game to check it the original EA object will not show up...is that correct? And if we delete unchanged parts of our clone before renumbering it will "borrow" those elements from the original EA item without affecting it in any way?

[Inge Jones]

yes to both with the proviso that you shouldn't delete things in the middle of a chain without deleting the end too. For example, if you delete the VPXY and leave the FTPT it points to there, the FTPT will either be ignored or act as a perpetual override (I can't remember which). Image resources are always at the end of the chain so you won't have this problem deleting them.

[orangemittens]

Thank you for the additional information. Is there somewhere (which I've probably already been told and just cannot remember) where we can look for the chain hierarchy?

[Inge Jones]

Ok, here you are: http://www.simswiki.info/images/f/fc/Sims_3-ToiletResourceChain.png

[pljones]

Just to add, whilst this is our "canonical model" for an object and its resource chain, there are objects that have more or less complexity to them -- and, I imagine, some we don't yet know about. So if you find something that's not on there, do not be alarmed! :) And if you find something that's not only not there but doesn't seem to be understood by the tools, please mention it: it may well be something we don't understand, either!

[orangemittens]

Thank you both :)