One of my more recently-uploaded lots (Dead End Tenements) had a member post that it contained the apparently-notorious Super Duper Hug Bug. Given how seldom I actually PLAY the game beyond simple playtesting of lots, I can't say I've ever seen its effects on that or ANY lot, but I'm certainly willing to admit that I could have missed it. However, reading some of the threads regarding this glitch, it looks "menacing" enough to make me hesitant about uploading anything else until I've cleared it up, one way or another.

With how little I understand the game beyond Build/Buy mode, forgive me if some of these questions seem foolish. I've read some of the threads about this glitch, but don't fully understand their implications.

1- How can I check to be sure that it's an issue stemming from my game in the first place, and not something else a member downloaded recently?

2- Is there any way of properly "cleaning" a lot of this issue before uploading it? (the threads I was finding kind of seemed to contradict each other on this point)

3- If not, does running an all-EPs-all-SPs AGS for creating lots and basic playtesting keep the bug from appearing? Or will it somehow jump between games?

4- Most drastically, is there anything short of a complete reinstall that will be sure to address this? I spend so much more time on construction than I ever have on gameplay that, if it comes to it, I'm willing to just go through and take pictures of everything, and then uninstall/reinstall it, but I do like a few of my households and their histories well enough that, if possible, I'd like to keep them! (obviously )

Jo-incoming. <ducks> - she'll be here in a minute.

Ugh - bad luck. At least, if it's from your game. You should be able to test it. Do you have the anti-SDH hacks? If not, if it's in your game you'd know about it.


Not easily. One tester for Polgannon said they saw it too but I tested and tested for it and never saw it in my game. The thing is, with lot-sharing being common, many people do have it and if they have NoSimLoaded, they don't see it so don't know either.


Apparently not. Moo had a look at it and unfortunately didn't get to grips with it. I did wonder whether this is the sort of thing BO might have a look at since No Sim Loaded suppresses it.


No it seems it can't jump unless you import a suspect thing (lot usually). It seems to be caused by removing certain types of hacks or objects. Anyway, as AGS is a clean environment, that's why a lot of building is done there. I built Polgannon entirely in AGS (which is why I was surprsed by the SDH report). Also, if you have the SDH fixes in places in your AGS environment as soon as you've made the neighbourhood, that will prevent the SDH developing should your game be exposed to it.


If you've got it in your game, a uninstall/reinstall is the only way to get rid of it.

I don't have them, but I think you're underestimating how seldom I play the game, and even then, how seldom my Sims visit community lots, which from my research thus far, seem to be where the issue rears its head. That's why I'm not convinced that I would have noticed it, even if I do have it... Plus, if it comes from Live-mode mods (again, what my research indicates), there's only two that I've ever downloaded... either of these potentially the culprit?

http://modthesims.info/download.php?t=225894

http://modthesims.info/download.php?t=299368



So you're saying that it's sort of like the TS2 version of Chicken Pox? Something not-too-dreadful but still unpleasant that lots of people have, and even more people unwittingly carry the "virus" around with them, inadvertently infecting others?



OK, that's good to know! Now I just have to figure out how to get AGS to work properly for me...



If all else fails, I can keep this in my back pocket... I'll probably be getting a new computer soon enough anyways, so at that point this kind of becomes a moot point in many regards.

She's here - I wonder if she'll post before I finish this...

It seems, from what I could gather, that the hug comes about by modders using a particular BHav (? - think it's a BHav). There's something about this particular one that means if the mod using it is pulled, it defaults back to a testing BHav created by the developers called the Super Duper Hug and what happens is sims constantly try to hug one another.

So it's not a game breaker since there's nothing wrong with the code and nothing is missing or anything like that. What it is though is BLOODY ANNOYING because you can't get the sims to do much else. I'm not sure how BO's NoSimLoaded suppresses it - he'd have to come over here and tell you that himself - but it makes the game playable again if you have it. It's more like herpes than Chicken Pox since once you have it, you will always carry it (bar a reinstall).

*Lands*

Sorry to hear you have this Zar. Nothing fills a builders heart with more fear than hearing that from a downloader. -Which is why No Sim Loaded is on the critical mods list.

Zar, make a full back up. Pull your download folder and make a test hood with a couple of sims. If you have it, the SH will show when you click on each sim to interact. In fact when I was first told my lots had this I was so sure I hadn't got it that I did that and went in to take a screen shot to prove that I didn't... I had it.

Once I knew it was me I PM'd a mod to hide all my downloads until I could get them all cleaned up. The thought I could have spread this to thousands gutted me. We know now it isn't a death nail, but my finding the SH was a catalyst for all those threads and Moo's looking into it and Esme's testing of it.

3. Yes you can clean the lot. All of my lots got cleaned. You will need to clean them all. You can either have another person install your lot into their clean game with no sim loaded which will kill it or if you can get AGS running that makes it easier. I am thinking you can't run AGS? If you can't run AGS then yes you are probably looking at a complete reinstall.

But I have always wondered if making another sims 2 folder inside an infected game would work, I never tested that though. Rename the sims 2 folder, force the game to make a new one, load it up and see if its clean. If that second folder is clean you could use that to clean your lots and build in.

As maxon said it's not as deadly as we first though but it is BLOODY ANNOYING.

How to clean. In a clean game with No Sim Loaded already in place, install your infected lot. Load the lot and make one small change, save and package.

The chicken pox, well it got called a 'social disease' back when we were testing >cough< but sim chicken pox will do.

Jo, do you by any chance still have that screenshot, or know of one? I have no real idea what I'd even be looking for to confirm one way or the other otherwise...

And yeah, AGS doesn't seem to cooperate with my computer, sadly... I've tried several different iterations from it, and at least so far, they all either just run my "normal" game somehow, or else don't run at all, and crash as soon as the opening video finishes. I'll have to give the new folder idea a shot once I read enough to know what I'm doing there though! In the meantime, as far as finding someone to clean lots, where would I find someone who could help there? (could you? ) I'm guessing it's basically just placing the lot in a clean neighborhood, maybe rotating something symmetrical to make a "change" that can be saved in it, and then re-packaging it, right?

Also, after reading through the comments on all the potential source threads, the only creation I've downloaded that mentions it is a Vampire interaction-altering mod. Am I right in thinking that removing that mod does nothing to help, and leaving it in place does nothing further to hurt?

Zar I have no idea where the picture went, but it shows up on the sims pie menu. It's hard to miss. Make sure to pull all your downloads in case you have a mod hiding the SH. No Sim Loaded, Deadly Neck bite extra file and Control This Sim are at least three mods that I know of that will hide it. I had Control this sim which had been hiding the SH for a few years. Which is why I had no idea that I still had it and was spreading it. Make sure testing cheats are not on then have one sim click another and you will see something like DEBUG-Super Duper Hug as a social option.

I really hope making a new sims 2 folder will work. Keep us posted because if it does we would need to add that someplace. Maybe to a basic clean up tutorial.

I can help clean your lots. But if making a new folder works you will have the means to do it yourself as well. If making a new folder doesn't work once you reinstall, that clean game can also be used. So long as NSL is in the game before the infected lots it will kill it off. But take an infected game and put NSL into it and you only have it hiding the SH from view.

Do you mean deadly neck bite? It was because the mods originally caused the SH that the creators looked into it and took steps to make either the mod or an extra file would kill it, even BO's NSL. No one has been able to verify how good Control This Sim or Deadly Neck Bite are at killing the SH. Since we do know that No Sim Loaded does and we have the modder BO active on this site, that is the mod we recommend be used. Use the vampire mod if you want a vampire mod, but use NSL for the SH. I have NSL and Cyjon's Smarter EP Check (must be used together) in a 'Do NOT Remove' folder. Once your game is clean and it has No Sim Loaded working it doesn't matter what else you toss into it. You can toss in infected mods and lots (I have your slum starter it probably had the SH) NSL simply kills off the SH. Remove NSL at any point though and any infected lot or mod has the potential to cause the SH again. Even if I am doing a 50/50 search I never remove NSL and Smarter EP Check. . Actually that is the most important time to leave it in since mods that cause the SH only cause it when you pull them out. From testing Esme determined it was an extended family mod that gave me the SH the second time (yeah I've had it twice) although the creator swore up and down that could not be, so I don't know. The SH is a sneaky thing but so long as NSL stays in your clean game it can't do anything.

Hah Jo - knew you couldn't resist it.

Zar if you have it, when you click on the sim, you can't mistake it because you can see it - I'd forgotten that. It says 'Super Duper hug'.

I didn't know that point 3 Jo - useful to know.

OK, I set up a new folder and waited through a good 45 minutes or an hour of loading screens as it set up a new neighborhood... When I opened it, I saw no evidence of the bug, although I did still have SOME of the creations I've downloaded available. (I still had catalog access to the career rewards, thanks to the mod making them available, but the ceiling light fix wasn't there.) I didn't check everything (I didn't have the patience to get a witch or a vampire to test mods there), but it would appear, at first glance, anyways, that the new folder is clean of the bug.

As far as pulling my download folder from my regular game to check whether it is in fact an issue there, is that also just a simple matter of renaming the folder so the game can't find it? Or is that more complex? In a way, I almost hope that it IS there to be found, if for no other reason than that I'd know for sure at that point!

(This is me with most computer programs... as long as they're working properly, I can get them to do some pretty great stuff- but as soon as there's even a small glitch, I'm useless! )

First step make a full back up. I don't know about renaming the download folder, I think it's best to physically pull it.I would do copy paste to the desktop then I would go in and click delete. I think that is safer than cut and paste. Now the issue with this is, if you don't already have the SH this could potentially cause it since pulling a social mod can cause the SH to appear. (The SH comes from pulling certain social mods and from infected lots) As far as we know it's only a handful of mods that cause the SH, but there could of course be one or more unknown mods. These are mods that add things to a sims menu. The ones we know of were the Kiss check mod on MTS (I got my first round of the SH from that) That mod was removed years ago. Extended family looks to be very suspect whatever the creator says. The original Deadly neck Bite, No Sim Loaded and Control This Sim all caused it. All three creators fixed and re-uploaded clean versions years ago. You would have to have very old files of those mods for those to create it. If you had any of those old files I would say not to do a test run as they will cause it. I would also not do it if you use the extended family mod. Esme did a lot of testing with all the mods I had that added new options to sim menus and they all came back fine until she got to extended family.

What vampire mod are you referring to? is this something other than deadly neck bite? I want to keep a check on all known mods that cause the SH.

I would have done that step first to check if you really have the SH since it's also possible it wasn't you. I am sure the person who reported it to me was correct because they had just reinstalled the game and my lot was the first lot they placed into it and they were mod free. They had just the right conditions for it to show.

Well, I have few enough mods, I can actually give you a complete list without even making a huge post!

OFB Crafted Objects and Seasons Fish in Buy Mode (since removed)

Turn On / Off All Lights

Buyable Aspiration & Career Rewards for Lot Builders

AnyGameStarter v. 2.1.1 (all games) * UPD 9 May 2009

Lunatech 'Lighten Up' Ceiling Light Fix

No Reagents Needed for Spells

Biting neck satisfies hunger need ( Vampires) UPDATE 02/27/08 (this is the one that seems like the most likely culprit, assuming I do have it... so far, I still haven't been able to find any evidence that I do in my own game... o.O

EDIT: Well, shit.



EDIT AGAIN: Looks like the creation of a new TS2 main folder does work though... I had the exact same settings as I had in my main game, but didn't see the SH in the new iteration. So, that's good at least. Looks like my projects for the next few days are cleaning all the lots I've uploaded since I started downloading mods...

I agree, that last mod is the only social mod there. I'm going to take a look at the thread and see if anything is mentioned. Has there been any other mod tried and pulled out? None of the mods above that deal with the sims menu so none of them could have caused it. If that vampire mod is the only mod to alter the sims menu you should let the creator know and I would pm a mod since it should be taken down.

It's pulling the mod out of your game that creates the Super Hug. If you tried the mod then took it out, that would be how you got the SH (That's what I did with the kiss check mod) It's to do with something called a Fall back Guid and mods that have not had all the steps taken will fall back to the GUID in the installation files, the Super Duper Hug. Not that I understand that since I'm no modder but it's talked about on the Control This Sim mod comment section. The mistake they made back then was thinking since they could no longer see the SH on a sims menu that it had gone. Once you have it you have it until you reinstall. You can remove it from the menu with No Sim Loaded, but it can't kill it. It only kills it if its in first.

That's really good to know about the fresh folder. You should be able to clean your lots in there than. I know it's a pain in the bum. I blame EA for their botchy set up.

I guess you know how to re-upload your lots so the file gets replaced not added to? Just make sure it has the same exact name and over write it.

Edit: it's right there on the description! (posted about on post #62
However they don't say that the 'new interaction' is the SDH. 2008 was before we knew much about it. But that isn't good enough because the extra file does not remove it. (it would hide it) I would bring it to a mods attention, they need to fix the mod itself. If everyone had No Sim Loaded it wouldn't matter but not everyone does and you didn't. I hope you have it now?

Yeah, EA seemed to play it kind of fast-and-loose with a lot of elements in this game... one of the many reasons I usually stick to just using it for buildings is that Build/Buy has so much less that can cause problems (for gameplay or for the game itself)

And how do you mean for re-uploading? It's just a question of removing the current file and replacing it with the clean one in the thread's "edit" option, isn't it?

Not unless you want to loose your download count. You need the file to be exactly the same name as the original, complete with any spaces, capitals etc. You then upload it over the top of the old file. I did that once before the mod helping me explained it.

Ah, OK, good to know! I assume the process itself isn't any different though, right?

Just click edit and upload file. If the file is slightly different, even to leaving out a space the file will show up under the old one.

Well, I managed to screw up the replacement on my first attempt... my latest upload is now showing as zero again, at least on my scorecard (though not in the "downloads" tab of the creation itself) So far as I can tell, it's the same name... I removed the original and replaced it with the new one (which I did check- it seems to have been cleaned of the SH by running it through the new folder) in one pass of the edit. What'd I mess up? I'm going to have to replace at least half my creations- that'd be a huge loss in my download count if this happens with each of them!

No, you don't remove the original, see above I said you let it over write and if it happens to be wrong it will simply show up underneath as a second file. Removing the original file removed your download count not uploading the new file.

@joandsarah77 - Thank you for describing what precisely to look for. I may have missed previous threads/discussions that have come up, but this particular post will now be a 'favorite' of mine if I ever encounter this problem. I do appreciate you going over this in detail.

@Zarathustra - I shall eagerly be watching your lots to be updated, and I will be re-downloading. Thank you for caring and keeping us stalkers informed!

OK, got it! Second lot fixed seems to have worked right, now that I actually know what I'm doing! HOPEFULLY that's all it'll take to deal with this... (though I'm sure I've been Typhoid Mary for hundreds, if not thousands, of other users by now... )

And LadySilverwolf, I'm working on it! It doesn't take as long as uploading them the first time, but it's not instantaneous, so it may take a day or two (especially since I have to move house again today!)

Will achieve nothing except add another custom item to the lot. On loading 'No Sim Loaded' just creates a new version of itself then self deletes, the new version will just idle for 30 ticks so unless the lot enters live mode for at least a minute nothing is fixed.

I once noticed some controllers like the climate controller go into a permanent idle loop if the relevant EP is not installed. Since A&N contains several lots that had to be created with just base game, M&G and A&N installed I made thingy to wipe every controller from the lot on initialization so that new controllers will generate and run according to end user's EPs. Just selecting the thingy in the catalogue without even placing it is enough to clean the lot. It'll remove everything that is off world, every controller, TV station, career, interaction, memory etc. While the thingy is currently just a tool for my work on A&N, I'll happily share it at BAS on request.

Incidentally Zar - just so you know (another thing I remembered after the fact), if you play with Debug Mode on, you will always see the SDH as an option because it's part of testingcheats (at least that's how I remember it).

I frequently play with Debug mode on, but I don't see the SDH. However that might be because I am not infected of course.

It might be in the shift-click options - it is a while since I read about it.

Edit: I refer you to the third post here - see what BO has to say about it:
http://www.simbology.com/smf/index.php?topic=8793.0

"There is an interaction, created by the EAxoids, and therefor present in the unmodded game, that normally only shows up in DEBUG (cheat-) mode" (my emphasis)