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Theorist
Original Poster
#1 Old 19th Jan 2016 at 7:35 AM Last edited by ScaryRob : 19th Jan 2016 at 8:03 AM.
Default Question About Nursery
Is a 2x2 room adequate for a nursery? I know a crib will fit into it, but are there any other considerations?
Would it be OK to install a door to such a room, or would an arch be better?
The main purpose would be to contain the noise of baby crying.
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Needs Coffee
retired moderator
#2 Old 19th Jan 2016 at 8:14 AM
Bit small in a house for upload unless you are using 1 tile cc. A crib is two tiles and a change table is 2 tiles. I would probably make it a sewing room or an office or a walk in closet.

"I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives." - Unknown
~Call me Jo~
Theorist
Original Poster
#3 Old 19th Jan 2016 at 8:33 AM
OK, you're not saying why it would be a "bit small". I know it's small and I know the space could be used for something else.
My question is, will it serve the purpose of a nursery and work? If not, why not?
Needs Coffee
retired moderator
#4 Old 19th Jan 2016 at 8:48 AM
Yes I did. I think a house for upload should have a proper nursery with at least a crib and a change table. That's why I said 'unless you are using 1 tile cc'. Actually thinking about it, that's too small even for an office or a sewing room because of the chair.

"I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives." - Unknown
~Call me Jo~
Inventor
#5 Old 19th Jan 2016 at 1:15 PM
Are you planning to upload a house with a 2x2 tile nursery? In that case it's simply to small. Then it should be at least 3x3. If it's for private use I think you can have a useful bed in there. As joansarah77 said there are also 1 tile cribs available to save some space.
Mad Poster
#6 Old 19th Jan 2016 at 2:24 PM
If by "nursery" you mean "place for the infant" you need room for a two-tile changing table, a two-tile crib, and two parents to jostle each other trying to get the kid in and out.

If by "nursery" you mean "place for the toddler" you also need room for toddler items - potty chair, skilling toys, dollhouse, teddy bear. It should also be close to a bathroom (a good alternate location for the potty chair) with a bathtub or a CC toddler tub. And there should be enough open floor space that when the parent goes in to pick the kid up, it doesn't take 30 years for them to get into position every time - the kid needs room to turn around. Think about how integrated you expect the inhabitant of the room to be with the rest of the house. If the house is designed with the needs of a career sim who entertains a lot in mind, you won't want toddler toys strewn all over the living room, so you need a nursery that can isolate the toddlers and their caregiver completely. If it's a family farmhouse overflowing with pets and kids and extended family members, then it's not a big deal walking around toddler toys, and you can just have a crib/changing room.

As for the arch vs. door issue, either will work for keeping the toddler from being woken by the TV and the parents from being woken by the toddler or the plinking of the xylophone. In the case of the nursery intended to isolate the toddler from grown-up business, a lockable door is a necessity; in the case of the integrated toddler, an arch is probably sufficient and may improve the integrated feel. The question to ask yourself there is, which will be better for the likely use of the nursery once the kid has grown up? If it becomes transformed into a child's bedroom, it should have a door. If the child is expected to move to an upstairs bedroom and the nursery converted to social space, an arch is good enough.

Ugly is in the heart of the beholder.
(My simblr isSim Media Res . Widespot,Widespot RFD: The Subhood, and Land Grant University are all available here. In case you care.)
Theorist
#7 Old 19th Jan 2016 at 3:56 PM
I think a 2x2 alcove with an arch in a master bedroom or off of a kitchen can work well and makes sense layout wise. It can be a closet/pantry, a tiny sitting area or be used for a new baby/pets -- anything really. I wouldn't call it a nursery though.
Theorist
Original Poster
#8 Old 19th Jan 2016 at 5:13 PM Last edited by ScaryRob : 19th Jan 2016 at 5:44 PM.
Quote: Originally posted by Honeywell
I think a 2x2 alcove with an arch in a master bedroom or off of a kitchen can work well and makes sense layout wise. It can be a closet/pantry, a tiny sitting area or be used for a new baby/pets -- anything really. I wouldn't call it a nursery though.

Yes, an alcove is really what I'm shooting for, because there isn't enough space for a properly sized room. Just a place for a crib, separated from the adjacent areas so the babies' cries don't wake anyone else.

OK, here are four pics of the area, showing several layout options. The area is in the top (3rd) floor of the house. The location of the stairs, the two bedrooms and the bathroom cannot be changed, nor can the dimensions of the house. That 7-square area near the bottom corner in the pics is what I have to work with, but it's essentially a 2x3 area, since the square at the very bottom corner is an awkward space that is difficult to make use of.
(Note that there is a children's bedroom, to be used once kids are past the toddler stage and they can sleep in their own beds. The house also has ample space in a basement to be used as an activity room or children's play/skilling areas, among other things.)

Initially, I also wanted to include at least a small closet for the adjacent master bedroom, as shown in the first three pictures, but I doubt that will be feasible.

This configuration includes a small closet for the master bedroom. Access to the crib is from the bedroom:


This is a different configuration that also includes a small closet for the master bedroom. Access to the crib would be either from the bedroom or the hallway (not both):


Another slightly different configuration with a small closet. Access to the crib only possible from the bedroom. The arch could be moved one square to the right, close to the crib, which would free up the square currently in front of the arch to be used for...something:


This picture shows a 2x3 configuration without closet, and includes a crib and changing station. Access can only be from the bedroom and the square at the very bottom corner is not used at all:


Yet another option would be to simply leave the entire area open as a hallway and just put a crib there.

There are obviously other slightly different variations of these layouts that would be possible, but this is the area I have to work with.
Is a changing station really necessary, or is it a luxury of sorts? The few times I've played families that included babies (mostly for my Lot testings), I've found that babies' crying keeping other Sims awake seemed by far to be the biggest issue.

As an aside, I originally had not intended on including a small nursery (or whatever one wants to call it) in this house at all. The area in question was part of the master bedroom and included only a large closet. But since crying babies are a pain in the ass, I thought I would try to create a little room for a crib, accessed through a door or arch to isolate the noise.
Mad Poster
#9 Old 19th Jan 2016 at 5:30 PM
I consider a changing table a necessity, as otherwise you have dirty diapers all over the floor. If you don't have a changing table you need a wastebasket or composter nearby.

I also would never, ever, under any circumstances have the baby at the top of the house! Not without a refrigerator up there, too! So my opinion may not be very relevant.

Ugly is in the heart of the beholder.
(My simblr isSim Media Res . Widespot,Widespot RFD: The Subhood, and Land Grant University are all available here. In case you care.)
Theorist
Original Poster
#10 Old 19th Jan 2016 at 5:33 PM
Here's another configuration with the area just staying as an open hallway:
Theorist
#11 Old 19th Jan 2016 at 5:36 PM
I like the first picture! I'd take out the wall between the closet and crib and combine them into one "big" space so you don't have to use two doors (which takes up wall space in the bedroom). Or I'd take out the closet entirely to make the hallway a little more Sim friendly and just leave the crib space.

ETA: I don't like the baby furniture in the hallway -- at all. But the bigger hallway is nice.
Theorist
Original Poster
#12 Old 19th Jan 2016 at 5:41 PM Last edited by ScaryRob : 19th Jan 2016 at 6:06 PM.
Quote: Originally posted by Peni Griffin
I consider a changing table a necessity, as otherwise you have dirty diapers all over the floor. If you don't have a changing table you need a wastebasket or composter nearby.

I also would never, ever, under any circumstances have the baby at the top of the house! Not without a refrigerator up there, too! So my opinion may not be very relevant.


Yes, I realized in my limited baby-playing experience that a wastebasket is useful to dispose of the diapers, even necessary, which is OK, since they only take up 1 square. I do have 1 square available in the nearby bathroom, for what it's worth.
I mean, babies are only toddlers for what, three simdays? It's not a permanent situation,which is why, as a Lot builder, I'm hesitant to allocate too many resources and too much space to accommodate the situation. Anyone who has seen or played my Lots will know that I strive for realism, not so much gameyness. Sure, making a house to accommodate all situations to make game play easier can be built, and often is, but then you end up with a Frankenhouse which has little resemblance to reality, imo.

Why a refrigerator? For the baby bottles? Would the small fridge make do?
Theorist
Original Poster
#13 Old 19th Jan 2016 at 6:02 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Honeywell
I like the first picture! I'd take out the wall between the closet and crib and combine them into one "big" space so you don't have to use two doors (which takes up wall space in the bedroom). Or I'd take out the closet entirely to make the hallway a little more Sim friendly and just leave the crib space.

ETA: I don't like the baby furniture in the hallway -- at all. But the bigger hallway is nice.

I see what you're saying. The little closet could be put into that awkward square at the bottom corner of the picture, with the rest of the space dedicated to a crib and wastebasket. It would make for an awkward space though, considering it's accessed through the bedroom. Of course, all the pics already display an awkward space as it is, I realize that.

I also don't care for the baby furniture in the hallway. Replacing the changing table with just a wastebasket would lessen the eyesore though and create more room.

As I expected, the problem with asking for advice for things like this is that everyone has a different playing style.
I can tell that Honeywell is a bit more concerned about realism and how things look, overall, than Peni, who seems more geared toward playing for maximum efficiency. There's no right or wrong, it's just a matter of what different players enjoy the most.

The thing that irks me is that someone might look at one of my Lots and would think, hey that looks swell, if only it weren't for that one thing that I don't like that keeps me from playing it.
Theorist
#14 Old 19th Jan 2016 at 6:38 PM
Quote: Originally posted by ScaryRob
I can tell that Honeywell is a bit more concerned about realism and how things look, overall, than Peni, who seems more geared toward playing for maximum efficiency. There's no right or wrong, it's just a matter of what different players enjoy the most.


That's pretty funny. I have a bit of a "hardcore" gaming background so when I first started playing the Sims it wasn't unusual for me to put a toilet in the middle of the living room for my skilling Sims -- I was all about the min/maxing. You might also find cribs in the kitchen or living room and I'd put a low fence around them so they wouldn't get woken up by a tv or radio. Sinks and dishwashers were a waste of time too so there was none of those either. My play style is much more relaxed now and I don't mind a little inefficiency these days for the sake of realism.

Quote:
The thing that irks me is that someone might look at one of my Lots and would think, hey that looks swell, if only it weren't for that one thing that I don't like that keeps me from playing it.


Point being, if you're that kind of player you'll modify a house to suit your needs I think -- I wouldn't get hung up on trying to create for every play style.
Mad Poster
#15 Old 19th Jan 2016 at 7:14 PM
Exactly, and you have to interpret your feedback in that light. Some feedback will just be telling you which sections of the market you're not addressing. And sometimes feedback that you first think is not relevant is opening up some new revelation for you, about how you can tweak the house a little bit to accommodate another playstyle without inconveniencing the original audience. Which is why I sometimes give feedback on things I wouldn't download. As my husband has discovered trying to explain his programming problems to me, having an intelligent but completely ignorant perspective can be inspiring.

You can't get bottles out of minifridges; I've tried. Tramping up and down three flights of stairs to give babies unnecessary bottles would be a huge time sink, plus I like to have babies and toddlers in the main living area of the house during the day so the rest of the family can interact with them, so it saves a lot of work for me to park the babies and toddlers on the ground floor. Nor will I ever forget the agony of the first time I played the Newsons, when I tried to keep the toddlers on the second floor and they'd keep blocking the stairs trying to follow someone down them. I will agree, however, that if you have an alcove off the master bedroom, a crib and changing table are things that should be considered when designing how big it is. If a space is flexible enough that it can accommodate a baby, a home office, a walk-in closet, or a pet area with equal ease, it's well worth having. A childless couple could keep the womrat or the bird in that area, and not be woken by squeaking or squawking, for example.

Ugly is in the heart of the beholder.
(My simblr isSim Media Res . Widespot,Widespot RFD: The Subhood, and Land Grant University are all available here. In case you care.)
Theorist
Original Poster
#16 Old 19th Jan 2016 at 7:23 PM
OK, thanks for all your feedback.
I think I'll forego the nursery in that area and just make the master bedroom bigger, with a big closet.
The baby stuff can go into the basement, which will remain unfurnished.
Space Pony
#17 Old 19th Jan 2016 at 7:29 PM
Quote: Originally posted by ScaryRob
Why a refrigerator? For the baby bottles? Would the small fridge make do?


Yes because of the bottles From top floor it takes time to get the bottle Small Fridge from uni will not do, but if you use this, it will: http://www.modthesims.info/download.php?t=252826

EDIT: missed that Peni answered allready sorry
Needs Coffee
retired moderator
#18 Old 19th Jan 2016 at 9:01 PM
I haven't read it all, but looking at that space, I would turn the area into en-suit bathroom.

"I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives." - Unknown
~Call me Jo~
Theorist
Original Poster
#19 Old 19th Jan 2016 at 9:57 PM
Quote: Originally posted by joandsarah77
I haven't read it all, but looking at that space, I would turn the area into en-suit bathroom.

There's already a 3x3 bathroom nearby. Wouldn't make sense to have another one.
I'm just going to go with what I originally had, a big closet, which leaves both the bedroom and hallway much roomier:
Theorist
#20 Old 20th Jan 2016 at 8:28 AM
Is that a bookcase in the bedroom? Might you be addin in a chair to read in?
Theorist
Original Poster
#21 Old 20th Jan 2016 at 9:31 PM
Quote: Originally posted by CaliBrat
Is that a bookcase in the bedroom? Might you be addin in a chair to read in?

The bed has always worked fine for reading, but yes, I would probably add a chair. Maybe even a 1-tile table.
Theorist
Original Poster
#22 Old 21st Jan 2016 at 3:20 AM
A couple more questions.

Would two kids be able to do their homework simultaneously at this table?


Would a pet be able to use this petbed?
Mad Poster
#23 Old 21st Jan 2016 at 3:54 AM
I have never seen anyone read a bookcase book on a bed, only the one they pull out of their back pocket.

I'm not sure about the table. Try it. They won't be able to both set it down at once, because it goes in the middle slot, same as a serving dish; but once one kid has begun to work the other may be to set his down (or the player set it down for him) and then work on it.

The pet bed, no way! They need to approach along the side with the arrows, which is the long side, which you have completely blocked.

This is a very tightly-built house. I suggest you playtest it extensively for routing issues before uploading it.

Ugly is in the heart of the beholder.
(My simblr isSim Media Res . Widespot,Widespot RFD: The Subhood, and Land Grant University are all available here. In case you care.)
Needs Coffee
retired moderator
#24 Old 21st Jan 2016 at 4:04 AM
No and No to the last two questions. Sims can't read a book from the bookshelf on a bed unless you are using the cop a squat OMPS which is lets the bed be used like a chair. I play many tight little houses and one tile cc and things like cop a squat I use extensive. Now with the table, it might be possible for two kids to use two tables over each other with move objects. Not sure as I've never tried it.

As to their being a bathroom nearby, my motto is you can never have too many bathrooms. I nearly always have an en-suit as well as a toilet upstairs and another downstairs if there is room.

"I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives." - Unknown
~Call me Jo~
Theorist
Original Poster
#25 Old 21st Jan 2016 at 5:04 AM
OK, thanks for those last two answers.
As far as reading in bed is concerned, I could swear my sims have always been able to pull a book off a shelf and read it in bed. I've included a shelf in the bedrooms of almost all my houses precisely because of this. I will test this.

Quote: Originally posted by Peni Griffin
This is a very tightly-built house. I suggest you playtest it extensively for routing issues before uploading it.

Pretty much all my houses are tightly built. They are also all playtested and I'm the only Lot creator that explicitly states in all my Lot descriptions:

Tested, functional and never occupied.

23 Lot uploads and I have yet to get a routing complaint.
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