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Theorist
Original Poster
#1 Old 23rd May 2017 at 2:27 AM
Default Multi-Function Lots
I am working on a combination of lots for my town (building it up from scratch) and am in the process of play testing a lot now. I thought I'd discuss what I've done and the issues I'm having (issues that range from building to lay-out and beyond) to see if anyone has any suggestions on what else I might do with these ideas.

I created a row of shops on a 40x20 lot, starting with an open theater on the right end that uses the RH rug in a room on the second floor. I am trying out Zerbu's Open Careers mod and for both the theater and music careers, these are the things that raise career performance: Guitar, drums, bass guitar, piano, laser harp, violin, karaoke machine, DJ turntable, dance floor, ballet barre and video camera.

Here is an outside shot of the lot.



First off let me mention that the marquee thing is annoying because it never disappears and makes it very difficult to see inside the building when I'm playing the lot. I would just use the old grand marquee from Roaring Heights by itself, but it won't place on the tiles I have covering the top of the entrance and it won't slide up and down even though that's enabled (I checked it with S3PE). So it will only go where it sits, near the second floor, and then the space below looks empty so I placed the SHT marquee using MOO but as I said it gets in the way of seeing my sims. Suggestions?

Second issue is that I put a small lobby in the front with a popcorn machine from the World of Wonder Store Set but sims do not use it. Instead they only use the ice cream machine I placed on a counter which I'm going to have to remove because there are too many starving sims route failing to reach it. Plus IME sims will suddenly stop working using Zerbu's mod for little provocation and definitely if they're hungry they leave work before it's time to go use the ice cream machine! I am finding that Zerbu's mod works best when you are not controlling the sims, BTW. Oh, the irony.

I also placed Arsil's food register but it only sells a few things that made sense to me for a concession at a theater (there aren't many), and the food merchant wanders all over the lot and rarely tends his register. I have another food merchant at the other end of the lot which I'll cover later but I have the same problem with her. So if anyone has suggestions on what to do for food in my theater lobby I'd love to hear it. I may just leave the popcorn machine and let it go at that (because they can get food at the other food source on the lot when they're hungry).

So right now basically all the lot has is the movie screen (and ice cream!). I had a stage next to the RH rug room on the second floor but I have to re-do that floor because sims are taking too long to enter the room with the RH rug and routing all over the stage area in the next room. I'm creating a stage area in the basement instead but not sure what I'll do with it - maybe if I play a sim in this career I could fake a concert in it. First floor (sorry it's kind of dark but a sim decided to tell a ghost story ).



So far here is my re-do of the second floor.



The skill equipment needed to raise job performance in the music and film careers (mentioned on the list above) are all actually placed in other businesses on this lot. I'll show those soon (sneak peak at the second floor next door in the last shot) but I didn't want to post everything all at once 'cause it's quite a lot.

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¢¾ Receptacle Refugee ¢¾ ~ Where are we going, and why am I in this handbasket!? ~
Laura's Legacy
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Theorist
#3 Old 23rd May 2017 at 2:59 AM
Quote: Originally posted by tangie0906
I put a small lobby in the front with a popcorn machine from the World of Wonder Store Set but sims do not use it. Instead they only use the ice cream machine I placed on a counter which I'm going to have to remove because there are too many starving sims route failing to reach it.

Quote: Originally posted by tangie0906
the food merchant wanders all over the lot and rarely tends his register.

Sounds like you could use the testing version of NRaas GoHere and block some sims from going through certain doors (or arches)
Also are you using NRaas Register? They stay at the cashier more often with that mod. Try and make cashiers NPC's (Townies) otherwise they will try and engage in hobbies and tend to their needs. Townies don't really have needs, they just work.

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Theorist
Original Poster
#4 Old 23rd May 2017 at 3:05 AM
I'll look into the film set, thanks! Just so you know, there are five 'businesses' on this lot and the movie theater is only the first one. If you thought this was a lot of info all at once, I'm glad I decided to split my post up!

I forgot to mention that I used NRASS Retuner to change the 'attraction' on the food objects. I actually set both the ice cream and the popcorn with the same numbers but I think the issue is how filling the food item is; ice cream fills hunger completely and even though I use a mod that allows popcorn to fill a little bit of hunger (by default it fills none), it's still not the same as ice cream which is why I think it gets used first when sims are really hungry. But I think I am just going to remove it because it makes more sense to have popcorn at a movie theater and if sims don't eat it autonomously like I said there is another eatery on this lot. I have Icarus_Allsorts Bartending mod so I could make that theater home bar object a professional bar and it will spawn a bartender. I really just want to have concession food available though.

As far as what I have the lot classified as, I'll have to check. I think it's labeled a Large Market, which brings in about the same number of sims as a Hangout and of course the RH will bring in sims as well. But I will get back to you on this. As far as opening and closing, I can set the hours for the Food Merchants with Arsil's Food Register mod so they leave when it's quitting time.

@tizerist, thanks for your comments. Go Here causes problems for sims when using Zerbu's Open Careers mod, so I don't want to lock any doors if I can help it. I did that with a library lot and it caused my Librarian (custom career) to stand outside the lot all day with a flickering 'go to work' in her queue (which I discovered after switching to her).

Also, with Arsil's Food Register, service sims are automatically generated to tend the registers. They just show up just like WA Food Registers.

¢¾ Receptacle Refugee ¢¾ ~ Where are we going, and why am I in this handbasket!? ~
Laura's Legacy
Theorist
Original Poster
#6 Old 23rd May 2017 at 3:15 AM
Well thanks for trying anyway. Since they stopped developing TS3 I have been having a blast trying out all kinds of mods and CC! No worries about updates. It's great!

¢¾ Receptacle Refugee ¢¾ ~ Where are we going, and why am I in this handbasket!? ~
Laura's Legacy
Instructor
#7 Old 23rd May 2017 at 3:18 AM
For the marquee, setting the OBJD flags for OnWall (CanBeMovedUpAndDown requires this) and HideWhenWallDown might work, although the footprint and the model's bounding box might interfere (not sure exactly how). The footprint can be edited in S3PE using Footsie. The bounding box can be edited numerically in S3PE as well, but TSRW might be helpful in visualizing it.

Thanks for opening a very interesting thread; looking forward to further updates and input from other players.

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Top Secret Researcher
#8 Old 23rd May 2017 at 3:40 AM
Hi Tangie - Love the look of your buildings. I don't know if this will help any but one of our members (littlelambsy) has been creating Ultimate Career lots to be played with Zerbu's Mod. Her lot's are on a smaller scale but have all the required objects. She's also got links to to objects she's using. Might be worth a look see: Simple Minded Sims Little Business Lots.

There's also a thread over at NRaas that might help going down the road. It's a lot of text but pretty well organized. Help With Ultimate Careers

Hope some of this helps a little and looking forward to seeing more of your creations.

Ahh, Sorry. I posted the Little Business Lots. Here is the correct link: Simple Minded Sims Ultimate Career Lots.
Theorist
Original Poster
#9 Old 23rd May 2017 at 3:42 AM
Hi, Butterbot! Thank you for the info on the marquee. Footprints are probably beyond my skill level but I can at least check the flags. I figured out how to do that much! Is Footsie a program? I've never used TSRW but I guess there's a first time for everything.

I considered adding this to your post a while back about visitors to unique lots like restaurants and stores but decided it would be better to create a new thread. It's a pity that Maxis never added restaurants and store venues to the game and programmed them to get visitors. Since they didn't my experiment involves combining unique lots with lots that ARE coded to get visitors.

The second 'business' on my lot, immediately to the left of the theater, is there is an old fashioned "Records Store" with DJ turntables (the DJ turntables are a skill item in the Music and Film careers).





I'm testing this lot in SV and this is Stiles McGraw who is in the Music career - I had him use the DJ turntable for hours at work and it increased his job performance a lot. The blond in the shot is the food merchant from the other end of the lot. She rarely tends her register either. There is a nicer DJ booth upstairs along with a Dance Floor and the Ballet Barre, both of which increase performance in these careers (these are shown in the last screenshot in my first post).

I'm thinking about placing the consignment register on the counter in the 'records shop' but then I'd have to code the lot as a Consignment Store. I don't know if I want to do that or not; I would be interested in hearing any experience anyone has had in multi-purpose lots with a consignment register. I may have to test this out but it takes some work to get a populated 'hood edited enough to test this lot. I bulldozed the art museum and deleted the Theater RH in SV in order to test this. I should have kept a save of the game at that point so I could test this lot using different configurations.

¢¾ Receptacle Refugee ¢¾ ~ Where are we going, and why am I in this handbasket!? ~
Laura's Legacy
Theorist
Original Poster
#10 Old 23rd May 2017 at 3:45 AM
Quote: Originally posted by barbarat
Hi Tangie - Love the look of your buildings. I don't know if this will help any but one of our members (littlelambsy) has been creating Ultimate Career lots to be played with Zerbu's Mod. Her lot's are on a smaller scale but have all the required objects. She's also got links to to objects she's using. Might be worth a look see: Simple Minded Sims Little Lots.

There's also a thread over at NRaas that might help going down the road. It's a lot of text but pretty well organized. Help With Ultimate Careers

Hope some of this helps a little and looking forward to seeing more of your creations.


Hi, barbarat. I've seen all of her lots and they are adorable! I have all my CC in package format though, so can't use them. Plus the issue with a bunch of tiny lots is that for quite a few of them, sims won't visit them on their own. I'm experimenting with combining lots that do get visitors with fun lots that wouldn't normally get them. But thanks for the info! And let me just add that her lots have been a great inspiration for me and I've stolen a few of her ideas.

¢¾ Receptacle Refugee ¢¾ ~ Where are we going, and why am I in this handbasket!? ~
Laura's Legacy
Instructor
#11 Old 23rd May 2017 at 4:32 AM Last edited by Butterbot : 23rd May 2017 at 4:20 PM. Reason: Typo
@tangie0906

Footsie is a plugin for S3PE that allows a user to edit the FTPT visually. You might have it installed already; right-click on a FTPT resource and see if "Footsie" appears on the context menu. If not, it can be obtained here, as part of a set of very useful plugins for S3PE. These two comments by Arsil and myself might be useful at some point, as Footsie can be quirky.

Both the footprint and bounding box(es... there are several per object) can be edited in TSRW too. My personal preference is S3PE because it exposes object resources in a very straightforward manner, without the obfuscation of an overwrought "friendly" UI. S3PE might appear cryptic at first, but it makes it easier to grasp, in the long run, how different resources in an object work and fit together. TSRW's superior visualization tools make it very handy for troubleshooting though.

I have also experienced the "wandering merchant" problem with food registers. In my case, the register (don't recall whether it was an EA register or Arsil's) was situated on the second floor of a sports complex and the merchant would often wander onto the first floor or even outside. It's still possible for an active sim to buy food, but there is a waiting period of several minutes after the interaction is triggered while the merchant makes their way back to the register--very annoying. I think it's technically possible to bind the merchant more strictly to the register object--there are precedents with both EA's merchants and the NPCs from Arsil's professional massage table.

Nice storefronts! What do you do with the upper stories?

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dodgy builder
#12 Old 23rd May 2017 at 11:09 AM
Do you expect the downloader to have all these mods? What are you testing? ... mods or your town. Is the settings you have something you can easily upload for a downloader?
Scholar
#13 Old 23rd May 2017 at 4:12 PM
Volvenoim, I don't think Tangie is asking about making a lot for downloading, I think she's asking about tips in playing the lot herself. (some of us do build lots for our own games!)

I think the popcorn machine is probably a much better item for this kind of lot than the ice cream machine, for all the reasons you mentioned.You don't have to worry about starving sims if you have the restaurant going on. I'm very interested in what kind of results you get, as I'm also in the multi-function lot camp. I want more sims on the lot than a tiny one-function lot will give, but I also have a weaker computer and I am not sure how many functions and sims a lot can support in my game.
Theorist
Original Poster
#14 Old 23rd May 2017 at 4:31 PM
@Volvenom I am not planning on uploading the lot. If I were I would have posted this in the Creator's Feedback Forum. I know some have tried playing the way I am attempting to play, and there was a thread that Butterbot started not long ago where we were discussing whether visitors go to lots such as bakeries and the like. So this is a game play discussion around experimenting with different lot combos. While I was at it, I'd thought I'd ask a few questions about objects such as the marquee!

Speaking of Butterbot, I have some things I have to go do first but later I will post some more pictures, including the upper floors, to show what I've done with them so far. I do think part of the problem with my lot and the food merchants is that sims can go right up to the baking rack and purchase directly off of it, or go make ice cream themselves for free, and bypass both food merchants. They do sell food occasionally I just don't think most sims are using them.

Speaking of ice cream @lucy kemnitzer, I deleted the ice cream maker and now the popcorn machine is seeing some use! Plus I had to delete it or I couldn't get Stiles McGraw to finish his Opportunity to play in the symphony. He kept leaving the RH to come get ice cream.

I think I will delete the food register in the theater lobby and just go with popcorn. It's not very filling but sims that have no money can use it as an option. I have a restaurant at the other end of the lot that I'll show later; for that one I'm going to switch out the food register with the bakery register. At least then there will only be one cashier wandering around if sims just purchase off the bakery rack.

@nitromon the lot was categorized as a large market (only possible with NRASS mods). I changed it to "No Visitors Allowed", as most RH lots are coded, and so far I haven't seen a big reduction in traffic. I'm going to try different categories after I play this for a few game days to see if it makes any difference. I created a household with a musician and an actor so I don't have to play that other household any more (Stiles is a stick-in-the-mud and the rest of the characters were just annoying).

¢¾ Receptacle Refugee ¢¾ ~ Where are we going, and why am I in this handbasket!? ~
Laura's Legacy
dodgy builder
#15 Old 23rd May 2017 at 7:03 PM
Quote: Originally posted by tangie0906
I am working on a combination of lots for my town (building it up from scratch)


oh kay, (misspelling intended), I must have read this the wrong way, my bad. Then you can just keep on, even though I can't see why you would like to work so hard on something without uploading
Theorist
Original Poster
#16 Old 23rd May 2017 at 7:13 PM Last edited by tangie0906 : 7th Jun 2017 at 3:08 PM.
Thanks for the feedback, newlibertysims. Hiding rooms has the benefit of keeping wandering sims out of them as I recall. That's a good idea and I might go that route on some venues, but right now I am thinking that I will probably use all the rooms on this lot. At least eventually!

Your lot looked great and I hope you will eventually show the inside! I'd love to see what you've done with it (for those who don't know, newlibertysims posted a pic of it on Tumblr). When I build my bar for my game I will probably put a shop next to it on the same lot, like a clothing shop or something like that. That way it might get a little traffic on occasion from sims visiting the bar/club.

Next to the Records Shop on my Theater Plaza is a Recording Studio.





I know it's difficult to tell but as mentioned elsewhere by someone who already tried it, I used Icarus_Allsorts transmogrifier mod to change that music stand into a karaoke machine and that's what I had Stiles use. I love it! There are musical instruments in the recording booth as well for sims to use, but space is a bit of an issue as you'll see later...And there's that other food merchant again; this time she is using the 'recording equipment' to play chess (recording studio CC by Sandy at ATS3) - did I mention the food merchants wander all over the lot? They're sure having a good time. I do have to say though that sims have more than one way to get food so maybe the sims are not ordering from them and that's why they don't operate their registers much. This requires more experimentation!




¢¾ Receptacle Refugee ¢¾ ~ Where are we going, and why am I in this handbasket!? ~
Laura's Legacy
Theorist
Original Poster
#17 Old 23rd May 2017 at 7:15 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Volvenom
oh kay, (misspelling intended), I must have read this the wrong way, my bad. Then you can just keep on, even though I can't see why you would like to work so hard on something without uploading


Because I don't just build, I play. And this lot is fun!

Besides as you said, it would require way too much CC and mods to work as I'm playing it so uploading it would just be a pain.

¢¾ Receptacle Refugee ¢¾ ~ Where are we going, and why am I in this handbasket!? ~
Laura's Legacy
Theorist
Original Poster
#18 Old 23rd May 2017 at 7:29 PM
To answer Butterbot's question about the second floor of these businesses, here is a screenshot of what is currently on the second floor of the theater. Sims insist on only using one route inside the room with the RH rug so when another sim beats them to it, they route into the next room and onto the generic stage I created up there. So I will be re-doing this second floor and will put a stage area in the basement.



Here is an over view of the entire lot. From left to right, Pizza Restaurant (with musical instruments upstairs for Zerbu's Open Careers mod), Photography Studio (with movie camera skill item), Recording Studio (with Karoake Machine and more musical instruments for skilling), Record Store (with DJ Turntable, Dance Floor, and Ballet Barre skill items), and the Theater. (I think I will move the Ballet Barre to the second floor of the theater when I re-do that floor.)



Here is the second floor - I've already showed the theater second floor; the Record Store has another DJ Turntable upstairs as well as a dance floor and currently the ballet barre. The second floor of the Recording Studio has a bathroom and the RH Door for the Film Career. The Photography Studio has a picture backdrop and some digital photo frames for sale (those rugs are for the Savvier Seller mod; eventually my photographer will place his or her own photographs in them to sell). The Pizza Restaurant has a bar and a stage with some more musical instruments.



Only the Photography Studio and Recording Studio have third floors. The Photography studio has props for photographs stored up there and nothing is in the third floor of the Recording Studio. I will probably create some kind of a 'movie set' up there eventually.



That concludes the tour of my lot. So now I continue with testing it with different lot categories! I'll post my observations but this will probably take at least a few days or so.

¢¾ Receptacle Refugee ¢¾ ~ Where are we going, and why am I in this handbasket!? ~
Laura's Legacy
Top Secret Researcher
#19 Old 23rd May 2017 at 8:08 PM
Awesome Tangie. You've done a great job. I also got some ideas from your lot here for my next project. I love building lots and playing them.
Thanks for sharing yours
Theorist
Original Poster
#20 Old 23rd May 2017 at 8:38 PM
Thank you, barbarat! I loved littlelambsy's ideas for her lots but now a recording studio actually has a purpose, since it contains skill items for the film and music careers. And putting a DJ Turntable in with a record store gives that lot a purpose too! I don't use lots just for backdrops for picture taking and stories as some do, as I said before I actually play the game so having some useful function for my lots is important to me.

Glad I could provide you some ideas as well!

¢¾ Receptacle Refugee ¢¾ ~ Where are we going, and why am I in this handbasket!? ~
Laura's Legacy
Theorist
Original Poster
#21 Old 24th May 2017 at 12:20 AM Last edited by tangie0906 : 24th May 2017 at 1:27 AM.
@newlibertysims I'll look forward to seeing what you do with it!

Right now I am only using NRAAS Cupcake mod. I'm not in-game so some instructions may not be exact, but I place a bakery rack or pastry case, click on it and Settings > All, and a menu listing every food in the game comes up (yes, EVERY food, even custom ones). I select the foods I want stocked at this eatery and accept. Then click on the rack/cooler again and stock now. Voila! Pizza and calzones for sale. Or whatever food you choose. I should create a cafeteria in my school that only serves mac and cheese and peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. Hmmm. The Cupcake can be configured from the City Hall to automatically restock the items after the clean-up routine runs every night. I don't really even need to place a bakery register because sims can purchase items right off the racks. It's simple and easy.

When I was attempting to test a sim owning and baking for a bakery, I had one rack I tried to have her fill with her own baked goods and also used Arsil's Food Register configured to sell the exact same baked goods (because you can specify which ones you want with that mod, too). That way if my sim couldn't keep the rack filled then sims would have another source of food. However in the end I decided that trying to play a bakery was a bit of a drag. I'm not saying that I won't have a sim in my neighborhood that owns one but I'm not sure I would play them very often.

But you know what, you gave me an idea. As long as I'm testing this version of the lot in my SV Test Game at some point I should switch it all out for Ani's Business As Unusual mod and see how that works, too. It's all for science!

ETA: I'll have to get back to you on that John Wayne-ish poster because I'll have to check to see if I can find out where it comes from.

@newlibertysims that poster is part of the Le Cinema Plumbob Set at the EA Store. It's one of the pre-set options for the poster shown as part of the set.

¢¾ Receptacle Refugee ¢¾ ~ Where are we going, and why am I in this handbasket!? ~
Laura's Legacy
Test Subject
#22 Old 24th May 2017 at 4:59 AM
Hi Tangie, I'm glad I was able to provide you with some great ideas. You're lots are wonderful, I love them. Good job
Theorist
Original Poster
#23 Old 24th May 2017 at 5:53 AM
Thank you, littlelambsy! Glad you like the lot. Like I said, your little business lots were a terrific inspiration for me so thank YOU for making those. There are a few of them that I will probably use. I love, love love your Herbalist lot even though that's not even a career I will probably set that up as a shop that the owner sells herbs using the preserves option on @Butterbot's Canning Station mod.

@newlibertysims you are welcome. If I can't serve just pizza or related food, I will probably just stick with the Cupcake mod for this particular eatery. But I was definitely planning to have at least one restaurant in my town that used ani's Business as Unusual mod.

Just to report for the evening, I had something like 27 sims on this lot right before I quit the game. Some of them are attending a show using the RH rug but I counted 17 sims active on the lot. This is after I changed the lot designation to "No Visitors Allowed". So this means the Theater lot is drawing the sims and the objects are keeping them there (I doubt the film RH is drawing any sims but maybe someone familiar with the code can confirm that).

¢¾ Receptacle Refugee ¢¾ ~ Where are we going, and why am I in this handbasket!? ~
Laura's Legacy
Instructor
#24 Old 24th May 2017 at 8:21 AM
Hey, tangie0906, thanks for all the pics and details about your setup. The lot is large and has a lot going on (seems like it's well frequented too)--does it get laggy? Are you currently testing on a small world or a large one?

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Theorist
Original Poster
#25 Old 24th May 2017 at 1:01 PM
You know, I was a little worried that the lot would lag because of how large it is and thought I might have to redo it - I could lop off the pizza restaurant and the photography studio if I had to. But I have had no lag at all. Of course this is a brand new game in Sunset Valley so time will tell I guess, but so far I've had no issues.

I do have a pretty powerful PC, though, so I can't say this would be everyone's experience.

¢¾ Receptacle Refugee ¢¾ ~ Where are we going, and why am I in this handbasket!? ~
Laura's Legacy
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