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Test Subject
Original Poster
#1 Old 22nd Jul 2016 at 12:52 AM Last edited by TrashEater : 23rd Jul 2016 at 3:51 AM. Reason: problem solved
Default Empty Custom Neighborhood still generating Townies
Recently decided to try and make a fully custom neighborhood after getting tired of the same old and weird looking townies but after following all the instructions still get a townie or two when I load a lot. I haven't really seen anything that explains this so I don't know what went wrong.

Following the guides, I cleared out all the character files from the main, sub, and stealth neighborhood templates and replaced the neighborhood.package files for each one, and I have all the "reduce the bloat" mods, notownieregen in particular. I've also deleted all the standard neighborhoods and my old non-empty custom neighborhoods except for one.

Even when I've tried to add my own townies immediately the game has already added a couple townies, and a couple more every time I load another lot. I did notice that each one has their own family tab, when I thought all townies were put under the same family. All the townies I create wind up under the same one but every townie the game adds gets its own tab in the option wheel thing.

Luckily I caught this early on so starting from scratch isn't a problem, but after sifting through all those tutorials and dead links I'd really like to just play again. Any and all help would be greatly appreciated!

Ah, also, I'm using the Ultimate Collection.
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Test Subject
#2 Old 22nd Jul 2016 at 1:28 AM
Did you remove the N001 folder located in the program's base folder in the double deluxe folder?
Test Subject
Original Poster
#3 Old 22nd Jul 2016 at 1:34 AM Last edited by TrashEater : 22nd Jul 2016 at 3:01 AM. Reason: spelling!
I emptied it out like the rest, but it's not deleted.

edit: both renaming and removing this entirely had no effect
Instructor
#4 Old 22nd Jul 2016 at 2:02 AM
Hi there, I was in the same boat as you just a few days ago!
Did you try following Mootilda's tutorials? I was referred to these and I found them to be most helpful:
Mootilda's Custom Subhood Template
Mootilda's Safe Shareable Neighborhood
Both of these touch on the creation of an empty neighborhood.

Creating a custom 'hood with UC is not an area of neighborhood creation that has been thoroughly explored. I only know of myself and another user, Mike, who have been creating 'hoods for upload with UC. If you're looking to create a neighborhood for upload, I also suggest this thread:
Mike's Thread
This highlights some of the challenges with UC and 'hood development. It's easy enough to just slap in a SC4 terrain and to create a world for yourself, but to make one to share is a different story.

You don't need to remove any files located in your Program Files, just rename them. Ensure all your stealth 'hoods are disabled, as well as your base hood. (C>Program Files>Origin Games>The Sims 2 Ultimate Collection>Double Deluxe>Base>TSData>Res>User Data>Neighborhoods) From there you should rename "Neighborhoods" to "Neighborhoods_Original" or "Neighborhoods_Disabled." Make sure you are renaming the file under "User Data" and not "NeighborhoodTemplate." If subhoods are still being generated, (which was one of my many problems,) I went so far as to rename each and every individual stealth neighborhood file, too.

Are they service NPCs? As soon as you enter live mode on a community lot or hire a service NPC, the game will automatically generate them. If they are just townies and random sims, then you might have not disabled your townies from Plesantview. The game will automatically take townies from Pleasantview for your new 'hood. To disable this, rename "N001" (located in "C>Program Files>Origin Games>The Sims 2 Ultimate Collection>Double Deluxe>Base>TSData>Res>User Data>Neighborhoods_Original" or wherever these files are on your computer,) to "N001 -bak". This will disable the game's tendency to put Goopy in your brand new town.

Again, these are what have helped me and I hope that they are of use! My suggestions are what have worked for me; UC 'hoods are still so new it's hard to give a 100% certain way to fix things.
Let me know if this helps!
Mad Poster
#5 Old 22nd Jul 2016 at 2:27 AM
Don't just empty out the character files! You need to completely disable the stealth hoods to make an empty neighborhood.

If you don't put in spawning suppressors - nodormieregen, notownieregen, nostrayrespawn, etc. - the game will start spawning even with empty templates. This is good, because you do need certain kinds of NPCs - but it's bad, because you may want to make your own NPCs, or it may think you need an NPC that you don't actually need for your medieval hood, or it may make multiples when you'd rather have only one. So you need to make sure you have all the spawning suppressors installed that you want.

Also, a certain minimum number of character files will be in every neighborhood, because they are Universal - Death, Mrs. Crumplebottom, the Therapist, and that bunch. I think there's a total of six universals but I suck at remembering numbers and might be wrong.

Ugly is in the heart of the beholder.
(My simblr isSim Media Res . Widespot,Widespot RFD: The Subhood, and Land Grant University are all available here. In case you care.)
Test Subject
Original Poster
#6 Old 22nd Jul 2016 at 2:48 AM Last edited by TrashEater : 22nd Jul 2016 at 2:56 AM. Reason: clarification
Thanks for the replies!

@Gremily_ I noticed right away that a lot of the guides were written well before UC and it was definitely worrisome! But I did go through each of those one directories, NeighborhoodTemplate and UserData, backed up and replaced them with an empty template. Zero character files and a new neighborhoodpackage.file for each: subhoods, stealthhoods and all. Also, I'm not sharing anything yet.

I did some further investigating and tried to see how many townies and NPCs the game would make on its own, rather than try and restart right away and fix something. It seems like the main townies that are appearing right away are social group townies. One more added for every time a lot is loaded from the neighborhood screen. Others are the obvious NPCs (mailman, paperboy, gypsy), a hobby leader (only after my test sim watched birds for days), and a garden club member. That's it.

I definitely replaced every folder, so I'm wondering if I used the right files. I don't really understand why its making so many social group townies even if I did make a mistake though. Is that how normally works? One townie everytime you load a lot?

@Peni Griffin I put the suppressors in! That's what I meant in my original post when I said "reduce the bloat" mods.

How do you disable them if its not replacing the neighborhood.package file? That's all that was included in most of the templates.

edit: To be clear, I know the difference between NPCs and townies. I'm not worried about NPCs. I'm seeing the unwanted townies when I use the Teleporter Shrub (http://modthesims.info/d/188501) to make my own.
Mad Poster
#7 Old 22nd Jul 2016 at 2:51 AM
1. Get these for your game set up. http://www.modthesims.info/download.php?t=520751
2. Get the no regen mods and all of the "Essential Mods" from here. http://www.modthesims.info/showthread.php?t=532696
3. Last but not least you need to remove the N001 folder from (what ever the UC did)\The Sims 2 Double Deluxe\Base\TSData\Res\UserData\Neighborhoods
4. You may have to follow these before you do anything for windows protection for Windows 7, 8, 8.1 and 10 will not allow anything in the programs to be changed or added and or removed without putting it the way it was.

Yes it is done for Windows 8 but with the updates for 7 and now 10 has the same windows protection junk you will need to follow it.

1. Disconnect from the internet then turn off "User Account Control". *(Or UAC.)
2. Restart your computer.
3. Check after restart that UAC is turned off.
4. Change Program folder for UC to read and write.
5. Some times it takes a restart for this to take effect.
6. Change My Doc. for UC to read and write.
7. Some times it takes a restart for this to take effect.
8. Now try your mods and if they work then restart your computer.
9. Check again that mods are working, if so then turn back on UAC.

If after all this you still get townies then you have done something wrong.

All my Beginning Hoods here at MTS. http://www.modthesims.info/member.php?u=7749491
All my Beginning Hoods as Shopping Districts plus Old Town. http://www.modthesims.info/download.php?t=523417
MooVille, a tribute to Mootilda and her fabulous lots http://www.modthesims.info/download.php?t=534158
Test Subject
Original Poster
#8 Old 22nd Jul 2016 at 3:22 AM
@marka93
Holy moly that's a lot of restarting...

About what you said about windows protection though, all of my folders and files have been changed and not reverted. They're just as I modified them.

Based on that, I'm not sure that's the problem... As I stated in the OP, I'm only getting two townies on loading a lot. One more for each time I reload it. Would that really happen if none of my changes were valid?

Based on what else I know, I don't think I should have any social group townies, but I also don't think I should have any garden club members or hobby lot leaders, either. That means the problem is in the stealth hoods, right? But the files I'm using for those are already the ones you've linked.
Mad Poster
#9 Old 22nd Jul 2016 at 3:42 AM
If you replace a stealth hood with an empty template, you should follow the creator's instructions.

If you are disabling a stealth hood, you need to disable the entire folder by renaming it, so the game can't find anything inside it.

I know that in the thread Gremlily linked, Mike had a terrible time tracking down all the necessary folders and then overlooked one of the anti-respawn hacks. It pays to go over things one at a time, checking, even when you're sure you did something. Half my screw-ups in life come from seamlessly changing from a universe in which I did something to a parallel universe in which I hadn't done it, and not noticing the transition.

Ugly is in the heart of the beholder.
(My simblr isSim Media Res . Widespot,Widespot RFD: The Subhood, and Land Grant University are all available here. In case you care.)
Instructor
#10 Old 22nd Jul 2016 at 4:21 AM
My Links are all wonky. Let's try this again!
Mootilda's Custom Subhood Template: http://modthesims.info/t/420196
Mootilda's Safe Shareable Occupied Neighborhood: http://modthesims.info/t/455403
Mike's Thread: http://modthesims.info/showthread.php?t=577774

Copied from Jawusa's Stealth Hood Templates Page:
- P001 is the stealth hood which came with The Sims 2 Pets
- G002 is the stealth hood which came with The Sims 2 Seasons
- V001 is the stealth hood which came with The Sims 2 Bon Voyage
- F002 is the stealth hood which came with The Sims 2 Free Time
- E002 is the stealth hood which came with The Sims 2 Apartment Life

I replaced the files with Jawusa's. Then I disabled the Stealth Hoods. It sounds like your stealth hoods are the ones causing problems, since you're getting AL simmies.
My best suggestion would be to re-download Jawusa's files, replace the ones you have now with those, and then go through and disable your stealth hoods. Like I said, I even had to go and rename each individual "E002" and "F002" to get them to disable. This is the process I did and my neighborhood's characters file is completely empty.
Test Subject
Original Poster
#11 Old 22nd Jul 2016 at 4:49 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Peni Griffin
If you replace a stealth hood with an empty template, you should follow the creator's instructions.


INSTRUCTIONS

1. Open C:\Program Files\EA GAMES\***EP***\TSData\Res\NeighborhoodTemplate\

Make a complete backup of the X### folder. Put in a safe place.

Open the X### folder. Open the Characters folder and delete everything inside it. Locate the file X###_Neighborhood.package and delete it.

Unzip the file you downloaded from me and locate the file X###_Neighborhood.package. Place this file into the X### folder.


I added the variable symbols. There's an instruction like that for every single hood (sub, stealth, whatever). It's exactly as I said in the OP. If there's something I'm missing point it out, please! I already double triple checked everything when I overlooked a folder my first time, so it's not like I wasn't thinking of that already.

I dunno who Mike is, so I'm not sure what thread is his. Is Mike Mootilda? or is Mike's thread the one with the broken link in Gremily_'s post? Mootilda's thread is talking about making a subhood for sharing which is neither of things I'm doing, and it loses me in the very first post! The UC isn't compatible with the AnyGameStarter.
Mad Poster
#12 Old 22nd Jul 2016 at 6:51 AM
You say that every time you restart your game you get 2 more townies and if this is so then you either do not have the mod called "notownieregen" or you have the wrong one for your game setup.

Without the "notownieregen" mod your game will make 2 new townies every time you restart your game. http://www.moreawesomethanyou.com/s.../topic,7.0.html

All my Beginning Hoods here at MTS. http://www.modthesims.info/member.php?u=7749491
All my Beginning Hoods as Shopping Districts plus Old Town. http://www.modthesims.info/download.php?t=523417
MooVille, a tribute to Mootilda and her fabulous lots http://www.modthesims.info/download.php?t=534158
Mad Poster
#13 Old 22nd Jul 2016 at 7:10 AM
Mootilda is the person who would figure out your problem if she were still alive, which alas, she is not. Mike is somebody trying to make a neighborhood to share using the UC - which starts with having it completely empty. Gremlily's link to his thread works fine for me. If you go to the top of the page and navigate to Create/Creator Feedback/Sims 2 you'll find the thread all right. He had a lot of trouble, but he's also an impatient person and missed a template.

I work off the disks and have never had to bother with empty templates, so I haven't done this procedure and don't have the UC, so at this point all I can do is spitball it. If the ones who show up are the regular social group townies, it stands to reason that something is wonky with the Neighborhood Template folder for AL, which at least simplifies the problem. Poking randomly in the character files to open them in SimPE, it appears that Neighborhood E002, the AL stealth hood, contains the Gavigans, Newsons, witches, familiars (and a puppy? That's weird...), landlord, and social group townies, which is what you'd expect. Yet you're not getting the family bin sims, landlord, witches, etc., only the social group townies? That's got to indicate something special about those townies, or a problem in the empty template you're using.

What happens when you rename that entire folder? Don't muck around with empty templates at all, just change the NeighborhoodTemplate folder into DisabledNeighborhoodTemplate folder, open your empty hood, and see what you've got.

Ugly is in the heart of the beholder.
(My simblr isSim Media Res . Widespot,Widespot RFD: The Subhood, and Land Grant University are all available here. In case you care.)
Test Subject
Original Poster
#14 Old 22nd Jul 2016 at 7:17 AM
I redownloaded all the jawusa's templates, replaced and disabled them by renaming them (which is confusing. what does it matter what kind of files they are if the game can't find them? whatever.) I even restarted a couple times in the process, just to be sure.

None of it did anything, and I confirmed that each file was the one I already had and checked before.

I have notownieregen and all other no spawning mods: strays, dormies, antiredundancy. You name it. How do i find out if its the "right one"? Which one is the right one for UC? I've never even seen more than one referenced anywhere. As far as I can tell the one I have works for everything but the stealth neighborhoods, and its not called "notownieregen_exceptforthesteathhoods".

I didn't find anything new or interesting in Mike's thread either. It was just the same basic "find and replace" stuff the many tutorials already covered.
Test Subject
Original Poster
#15 Old 22nd Jul 2016 at 7:43 AM
Can anyone else get enough of these Neighborhood folders? I sure can't!

After renaming the NeighborhoodTemplate folders for all the stealth hoods I still had two social group townies upon moving the first sim into the first lot, but suddenly the option to summon most of the NPCs were missing and Toddler New Year had its own tab on the option wheel. I'm not sure if this is good or bad, but after changing the names back the NPC tab went back to normal, which means that windows protection thing and resetting my computer 9000 times isn't necessary. I can modify things just fine!

It also means that my stealth hoods gotta be hiding somewhere else... but where could they be?
Mad Poster
#16 Old 22nd Jul 2016 at 8:32 AM
Did you download notownieregen from AL directory? It can be you downloaded from other (earlier). Also do not put it into subfolder, just leave in Downloads and try rename putting y before so it loads last (ynotownieregen.package). Also after renaming did you create new hood or trying a same?
Instructor
#17 Old 22nd Jul 2016 at 4:45 PM
I agree with Annaminna. Try creating a new 'hood to see if that changes anything. The game might just need a new neighborhood to utilize all the changes you have made.

It is very frustrating, and I can understand because it took me two days before I made an empty 'hood. I shared the links I used because it did go over the processes of making an empty 'hood, (even though it turns out that characters are your problem and not subhoods,) and I didn't know what other tutorials you looked at. I shared Mike's Thread because he had gone through hoops and fire to get to where he was, and even if you aren't set on sharing I thought maybe it might have been worth a look, since so much collaboration has gone on to help get his 'hood working properly. Sorry if they weren't helpful or if they came across as confusing, but like I said UC is very tedious to work with and there isn't much help out there otherwise.

As for replacing and renaming, that is just what I had to do to ensure that my neighborhood was empty. It's just adding an extra step, really. (It's unnecessary, however this is what I did and I have no sims.) As long as your game can't find them, that's really all that matters.
Mad Poster
#18 Old 22nd Jul 2016 at 6:47 PM
Disabling should be enough without replacing.

Once a sim is in the hood it's there, so you'll always have to start the neighborhood over. If you're reloading the same neighborhood over and over, no wonder you're getting the same sims over and over! If I misunderstand the situation, sorry for adding more confusion to the mix.

Since I'm so confused, let's throw another question on there: (My specialty is asking questions that, while not directly leading to the answer, spark a realization about some related point, so asking stupid questions is my job here; sorry if it's annoying and you're certain you already explained this.) At what point are the characters being added and how are you checking them? If you have the file browser open in the background while you have the game open, you can check back and forth.

So, you create the new hood, you tab over to the file browser, you look in the character folder. A) It has files in it - drat, you did not succeed in creating an empty neighborhood, scrap the thing. or B) the folder is empty, hurray, you have created an empty neighborhood. Save and back it up at this point.

But then, you build something, you tab to the open Neighborhood package, and you see that now there are files in that folder - that means characters have spawned despite your precaution. That is a slightly different problem, as it means that the social group townies are beating your spawn hacks. (All of which should be for the last-added EP available - that's always true with UC mods. Normally AL or MG, but if the last time a mod was updated was Pets, that's the version you want.)

So which of these is what's happening?

If the social group townies are the only problem, then you at least know the other empty templates are working as advertised. You don't have to worry about them anymore.

I'm certain I've seen, somewhere on this board, at least once, complaints about how social group townies are harder to do away with than others, but I can't remember who talked about it or whether a solution was offered, much less what it might be; and my memory is unreliable and makes things up, so unless this sparks somebody else's memory it's not much use.

Ugly is in the heart of the beholder.
(My simblr isSim Media Res . Widespot,Widespot RFD: The Subhood, and Land Grant University are all available here. In case you care.)
Mad Poster
#19 Old 22nd Jul 2016 at 7:24 PM


This is how looks totally empty hood character file. There is still 25 characters , 3 of them from holiday pack.
Mad Poster
#20 Old 22nd Jul 2016 at 9:48 PM
A certain minimal number of sims - Mrs. Crumplebottom, the Grim Reaper, etc. - are not in the neighborhood, but in the installation files. They are the same exact sims for every neighborhood, and they show up as Unknown/No Character file in SimPE.

I didn't think there were quite so many Universals, but that's exactly how they look in SimPE and they are not a cause for concern. What's the final headcount on Universal sims with the UC? If it matches we can write all of them off; if it doesn't we're much closer to closing in on the problem.

I don't know how Toddler New Year, Father Time, and Santa Klaus work, because I don't have the Holidays expansion, but I understood them to be Universals as well. The fact that they display differently in SimPE should mean that they work slightly differently than the other universals (because why should anything be simple or consistent?). They would all appear to be in the same file, named HDS.bundle. I bet you'll find that file somewhere in the Installation files, where it's doing the same thing as the different type of code that the other NPCs rely on.

The mechanical car is one of the NPCs who shows up this way in SimPE. Do you have in your downloads folder any CC that generates NPCs? Does anybody know how those NPCs show up in SimPE?

Social group townies do not look like this in the SimBrowser. They are townies and are indistinguishable from other townies in this utility, with names, pictures, households, and character files; and they are fully editable. As far as I can tell looking at that screenshot, you have an empty neighborhood.

Don't look at the neighborhood in SimPE; look at it in your file browser, Windows Explorer or whatever it's called on your OS. Open the N004 (or whatever) folder and you'll see you have folders for Characters, Lots, and Storytelling. Open the Characters folder. If it's empty, I don't care what SimPE looks like - you have as empty a neighborhood as you can get.

Ugly is in the heart of the beholder.
(My simblr isSim Media Res . Widespot,Widespot RFD: The Subhood, and Land Grant University are all available here. In case you care.)
Space Pony
#21 Old 23rd Jul 2016 at 12:37 AM
I know it has been said before, and I apologize for posting this but just to make sure (there were no links provided), you did dl pescado's hacks from this link? http://www.moreawesomethanyou.com/f...r=al%2Fhacks%2F

As with UC (like me, who never had a problem with townies, simply there are none if I do not create them myself) you have to dl those versions.
Test Subject
Original Poster
#22 Old 23rd Jul 2016 at 3:16 AM
Thanks for your help everyone! The problem was the notownieregen file afterall.

I downloaded it sometime ago, the first time I attempted to make an empty hood but gave up after it felt too involved. Even though it was a while ago I was sure it was the Apartment Life version since I never had any reason to get any other version. I'm glad I didn't just replace everything though since now I know exactly what it was and why I got the results I did. Sorry to trouble anyone else, though!

For the record, I made so many neighborhoods to test things out. I was really thorough about everything except the notownieregen file. I trusted it so much, but in the end, it was betraying me the whole time... The moral of the story is to trust no one, not even yourself from the past.

Anyway, thanks again!

I am having a new problem, though. It might deserve its own thread, but I guess I'll just mention it here. SimPE recently stopped being able to read all of my character files. At least, they all say "Unknown" and have no portrait. I can see most of the rest of their data, like personality and stuff, but its annoying to sort through Sims without the portraits. Resetting or waiting after Sims 2 was been shutdown for a while doesn't help either.
Mad Poster
#23 Old 23rd Jul 2016 at 4:20 AM
Ugh, is this the Mr. Potatohead thumbnail? Some people say that's a sign of corruption, but I think it's just thumbnails not generating properly. I don't know how to fix it.

Ugly is in the heart of the beholder.
(My simblr isSim Media Res . Widespot,Widespot RFD: The Subhood, and Land Grant University are all available here. In case you care.)
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