Some creators don't tooltip. Some creators just put their own IDs for a tooltip. Files like that have to be checked (and fixed) in WW or SimPE (but WW is much easier).

It's not outfit organisers fault if you aren't smart about how you use it. You complain that some CC is not tooltipped and that being a problem, while trashing a program that can fix that. When it comes to adding filename as tooltip to files, outfit organizer does that function far more easily than any other alternative that I know, the only other one with bulk action is Cat's and while that one is great, it's not fun to use on a lot of files in different folders because of how the navigation window is made. Outfit organiser is far more convenient to flip through folders compared to Cat's.

Yes you need to run bodyshop and generate thumbnails if you want the visual, and while I agree that it can be tedious to flip through an entire catalog, I would personally far rather have that step and get an actual visual at the end. WW shows you the flat texture, and it can't even always do that, for me it often fails to read texture properly so you get no visual. And when it fails it does so with a very annoying pop up "No texture to display"-esque message that you then have to click ok on to remove, something that gets real tedious if you are editing large sets where every one has the issue. However, if that does not bother you and you can easily tell what item it is in game from the flat image, great, good for you, glad you have a tool that works I don't enjoy trying to decipher flat textures so for myself I think it's worth the effort. And once again I think there are gains to be made by being smart about how you use things. For example, I wrote a script that flips through my bodyshop catalog for me. For those that can't script, there are auto clicker programs out there that you can easily set up to flip through catalog from start to end. Once I had finished all ages and clothing types, I then made a copy of my cigen package that I keep elsewhere, so that I can delete cache files between game sessions without losing the work I put in to generate the visuals. If ever I want visuals for my entire downloads folder again, I can re-use the existing cigen package. When I add new CC, I vet them in a test environment (very easy to generate visuals there, since you only have a few files and they are all at the start of catalog), and I then use outfit organiser to change the sort number so they will show up at the front of my main game downloads, to, once again, easily generate visuals. All I need to do is copy back my backup cigen package, flip through the first few pages of the new stuff, and voila updated cigen I can put back in my backup location. Finally, second copy of user files is your best friend when it comes to bodyshop. Organized CC folder + second environment = quick load times whenever you want, for only the section you want. Be organized, and be smart



Yes, you are correct that you can't open outfit organiser when bodyshop is open. However, the reverse is fine. You can close bodyshop, open OO, and then you can open bodyshop again allowing you to have both at the same time which is sometimes useful. The one thing you need to keep in mind when doing that, is that OO is in control of cigen, newly generated thumbnails won't save to cigen package, so you should generate the thumbnails you want first.

As for whatever bugs you have noticed, outfit organiser wins over WW there too. There are lots of bugs I've come across with WW, like missing textures, overriding gender setting when changing bin settings etc. There's nothing to be done about it, because WW has been unsupported for ages. On the other hand, OO has an active developer that you can send bug reports to, which may result in a fix, like was the case with the jewelry issue I encountered. It's not even an issue caused by OO, and whoward69 still went to the trouble of adding safeguards for it in his program.

But after all that is said, if you don't like it, don't use it It's a suggestion, not an order. I don't like HCDU+ personally, I choose to continue to use the original HCDU because I find it easier to use. To each either own, I'm not going to argue with you about what program you use I simply wanted to spread the word as I know a lot of people do enjoy whowards programs and may not have tried it, or is unaware of the recent update.



The preview in WW is the image from texture tab and jpgs if there are any, so they have the same options to show

^ There's really no "one program fits all", but you can use them for different purposes, so I'm just happy to have the options. There are things that are easier or quicker to do in another program.

Personally, I hardly ever use the WW any longer. I can do most of what it offers in either SimPE or the Outfit Organiser (rebinning accessories to jewelry is pretty much the only thing I can think of that WW could do much easier than SimPE, and I've rarely bothered with jewelry. And yes, I know it's just clicking some buttons in WW, but in SimPE I can also check/edit other things like bump maps).

Absolutely, sometimes one program is better than another for a specific thing. I still use Cat's tooltip program sometimes, for example if I have bodyshop open and I don't want to close it at the moment. And I have WW installed still, since discovering the outfit organiser I have not come across a situation so far where I would choose to use WW, but you never know I have HCDU+ too, there are things it can do that HCDU can't, such as finding duplicate files, discovering conflicts in text lists and defaults, so for those things it's very useful. I just prefer the normal every day bcon/bhav/ttab/ttas conflict reporting in HCDU

Gummi: One thing I have never, ever, ever seen Wardrobe Wrangler do is try to tell me that a top is a nudie. This afternoon BodyShop did exactly that.

QED: Reliance on BodyShop is reliance on a flawed program - which will produce flaws in the program that relies on it. (No idea how to get around this, other than Not Using Bodyshop.)

If you mean it shows an outfit with the correct mesh but a naked texture, that's in most cases a repo'd outfit that can't find the master texture. Technically not Bodyshop's fault. Either you don't have the master outfits, or the master outfits are placed too deep in the file path (beyond 256 characters), or something's wrong in the repo'd outfits.

Other common Bodyshop issues:
- Random(ish) maxis BG outfit showing = missing mesh (or recolor isn't reading the mesh properly)
- Invisible parts = Usually wrongly named mesh/recolor resources (or mesh is +30K polys without shaders turned on)
- Crashing outfit in CAS/Bodyshop = Something wrong with the mesh/recolor (sometimes a CRES/skeleton issue)


The WW just shows whichever textures it can read from the file, if there are any.

Unless you're using some extended mods (I think there is one, but never tried so not sure how it works), Bodyshop isn't capable of showing actual naked sims. There are recolored outfits made to look like they're naked, but you'd likely know if you had those.

I don't think there's even a Hex code for naked outfits (accessories and hairs seem to use swimwear).

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I think the clue to make the compatibility work is to understand where the issues are in Bodyshop, and what to do with them. Sounds like most of the issues are coming from outfits not showing up properly in Bodyshop, which is most likely a CC issue more than an issue with the programs.

Depending on how the OO reads the thumbnails, and what it uses as the reference for each thumbnail (an actual reference ID number that doesn't change until the Cigen gets deleted, or placement in Bodyshop that could change if items are added/removed between loads), removing/deleting outfits could cause some irregularities. Haven't looked into that, but could be useful to know.

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For reorganizing I mostly use SimPE and Bodyshop, with a trinkle of Cat's tooltip tool (if I'm being lazy). Lately I've used the OO a little bit, but I've only just started using it, so it takes some time getting used to there being a new tool.

I'll check stuff in chunks with Bodyshop (so it loads fast) to see if I have needed meshes and such, decide what to keep and what needs fixing, and then I'll recategorize and fix stuff in SimPE.

I think I have got some bad CC - certainly too much CC. There are things that Clean Installer will never catch, there are things that only show up in WardrobeWrangler (Net 1.x errors), and there are things that are just plain crazy.

Sometimes I think my computer needs an exorcist....

The Clean Installer isn't meant to be a bug catcher for everything. It's meant as an alternative to the default installer, and a way to remove items you don't want from a lot/sim pack. It can find some types of mods and modded objects, you can figure out what a file is (to some extent), look at the thumbnail/textures, and see the file path, and it marks some files in color (duplicates and mods, I think? Maybe something else?), but that's about it.

I had a lot of bad CC hanging out in my old downloads (half the reason why I've been cleaning it up), but I doubt the Clean Installer would've reacted to even a small portion of it. My game was seemingly happily chugging along for several years, so it clearly wasn't causing any huge issues. I only spotted the bugs when I went searching for them. Most of the buggy CAS stuff was found via a manual search in SimPE/Bodyshop, the GUID issues and some duplicate issues were sorted out via SimPE's GUID search and a lot of tedious searching, plus a few other things as well. Clean Installer has been helpful for looking through CC in some older lots (when I don't want to install them but need to find some old items I've previously had), but not so much for bug-catching.

How DARE you?!

I think I'm out of the loop lol. I've never heard of Outfit Organiser or HCDU+. I just use WW and the original HCDU. Usually if I'm using WW I've already caught something in Bodyshop that I want recategorised, so I only need the texture pic/filename to assure me that I have the right file.

Whoward posted (and sent me) this: https://www.picknmixmods.com/Sims2/...igenFormat.html

So basically, the Cigen reads the group and instance off the primary resource (GZPS, XTOL, XMIL, AGED...), and as long as this is kept the same (it's rarely something you change), it will be the same for the Cigen thumbnail belonging to that item. If you remove the item and later put the item back in, the same Cigen file should still recognize it.

Had a feeling it was something like this, but haven't had a proper Cigen file to poke around in for a while now (mostly focusing on objects, all my CAS items are elsewhere atm).

HCDU+ https://www.picknmixmods.com/Sims2/...s/HcduPlus.html
Outfit Organizer https://www.picknmixmods.com/Sims2/...tOrganiser.html
Object Relocator https://www.picknmixmods.com/Sims2/...tRelocator.html
What Caused This (for error logs) https://www.picknmixmods.com/Sims2/...CausedThis.html
There are also a lot of mods and various other interesting stuff on Whoward's site.

That explains how the Cigen works, but he needed to be more explicit that you can't have visual images in OutfitOrganizer without a (preferably current) Cigen file.


True, and some of the mods are very useful. Others have "undocumented features" that, if you don't know about them, can cause you problems. (The Cigen issue with OO is the second "undocumented feature" I have encountered - the first one was a feature/bug in HoodExporter that mandates a Save path with no spaces anywhere in it or the mod will crash. Once you know what the issue is, you can cope with it - but until then, hoo boy!)

Incidentally, I'm currently weeding my Custom Clothing via WardrobeWrangler, which gives me enough information to let me know which files have problems, and which ones are in the wrong place (there are a few of those too).

The text for the OutfitOrganizer says this, which is quite clear, at least the way I read it (it's about 1/3 down the page, and again in the FAQ.



(If you're just going to browse some items and you know which ones they are - for instance all AF clothing, but not other ages - you don't necessarily need to generate thumbnails for ALL other ages, makeup, etc. in one sitting, as it would be fine with just the ones you want to browse/edit. The ones without thumbnails are likely not the ones you're after, and if they show with the wrong age/gender than the one you browsed, then it's fine if they don't have thumbnails. As long as you don't delete the Cigen file, you can keep adding on to it).

Mods and programs often have bugs, and it takes a lot of testing to find all of them. If you find a bug, report it, because it's likely the modder hasn't seen that particular bug, or is working on it but could need more input on when it appears and what it does under various curcumstances in multiple people's games. Whoward updates the mods when bugs are fixed and/or new features are added, so there's a reason there have been multiple versions already of these programs

I personally use a variation of programs for different purposes, depending on what I'm editing. If one does something better than another one, I'll use that program. If I'm more comfortable using one over another for a spesific edit, I'll use that program. One program is not meant to be a complete replacement for another. You're free to use whichever program you want, as long as it does the trick.

I know I know, I'll go sit in the corner with a cone of shame on my head



I'll bet you WW told you nothing at all about that file either, since, as simmer22 pointed out a naked-showing top is almost always a repo'd outfit missing their master. Which does not have a texture to display in WW. So the issue impacts both equally. Again, you get to use what you want, but it's a bummer that you seem to want to discourage others from giving it a try with misinformed and self-induced problems. Whoward69 may be great, but he's not a wizard, he can't do more than give you the information and the tools, the rest is up to you

EDIT: Forgot to say yesterday that I would argue that OO has the issue less. Because WW can never give you a visual for that type of file, even if you have all the parts. OO will show you a visual, if you have the master and you generated thumbnail in bodyshop. And unlike WW's lack of anything, seeing a nude mesh in OO would actually help inform you on what the issue is.

Gummi: If nobody ever complains, how is anybody to know that there may be problems? (I would probably have given up on HoodExporter if you hadn't tipped me off about the no-spaces feature/bug. And at that I had to mentally translate "Export path" into "Save path" to understand exactly what you were trying to tell me.)

I think the "nudies" were the files that threw Net 1.x errors under WW, which may mean they had more than one problem. If I get that, or if I get a "ZOMG!" error. or if the wrong texture shows up, out it goes. I've got too much CC to waste time with "problem" files.

Well, I agree it's important to share about problems, but so far I haven't seen you mention a problem that's actually caused by Outfit Organiser. I'll stop responding though, don't mean to call you out, just bugs me a little to see things being presented as issues that aren't to do with the program

I don't think it was me that told you something about HoodExporter, I don't even know what that is. A Mootilda program it sounds like maybe? Don't think I've used that one, I don't really move hoods around. Maybe you are thinking of kestrellyn?

This one? https://www.picknmixmods.com/Sims2/...odExporter.html

It was me who mentioned the issue with spaces in HoodExplorer. If you have a space in the output path and try to apply a transform, it'll throw an error. I reported the issue on the Github repo a few months ago, not sure if whoward saw it or not.

Huh. Now I'm even getting confused about who said what and when.

Once the feature/bug was explained, HoodExplorer turned out to be fairly useful (certainly better on the Sim thumbnails just as the info said). I can cope with .cvs files and spreadsheets, no problemo.

I need to do a lot of weeding of my CC clothing, for which Wardrobe Wrangler is more useful because it doesn't rely on BodyShop and does have its own internal error signals. (I don't need full-figure thumbnails, when the flats are enough to tell me what's which.) I don't think any of the programs cope well with repositoried or dependent files, though.

whoward is aware of the glitch now, hopefully it'll get fixed in a future version!

SimPE is pretty much the only one that copes with everything. If you get errors or issues in SimPE, the file has issues that need to be fixed (or in some cases might even be broken beyond repairing - rare, but it happens), whereas if you get issues in other programs it's most likely because they can't see past whatever "problem" that isn't always a problem, like a repo'd/missing texture or defaulted items or what have you.

If you don't mind no visuals, the OutfitOrganizer should be able to handle repo'd files just fine. I'd think if you got them sorted out in Bodyshop, the thumbnails would also work.

BodyShop can get "difficult" and refuse even to open until you delete ALL the Cache files INCLUDING Cigen. Then of course you have wasted all the effort you put into paging through the catalog and you have to do it all over again. (Essentially, this is why I would rather use Wardrobe Wrangler for screening purposes.)

EDIT: If it comes to that, I'm beginning to take a strong dislike to repositoried files, as they seem to cause so many problems. (Was just wrestling with a set that would not show up in BodyShop no matter what I did - even dogpiling them into the same folder as their alleged source files did no good. So...out.)

I never have issues with Bodyshop, and my caches are deleted often as I change CC so much. Ithink maybe your best bet would be to get rid of your stuff and start again, and put some quality control into what you download. Many of the errors and problems you are mentioning are due to either not reading instructions, or else the setup of your custom content and the condition of your system.

I've had Bodyshop take up to 10 minutes to load before. You can see it in the Task Manager's details tab doing whatever in the background. If you try to open it a second time during loading that can outright stall it out. Just walk away from the computer for a bit, go read a book or something.

Yeah, Bodyshop takes ages to load (I have too much CC). It refuses to load for me too if I don't delete the cache files. It's a bit of a PITA having to load it first to use this other program. You don't have to do that with WW.