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Lab Assistant
Original Poster
#1 Old 25th Apr 2016 at 9:09 PM
Are babies technically handled in a special way?
So I love to dick around with the game, killing the Grim Reaper (or trying to since months), un-planting "ideal plantsim", "lobotomizing" adults, doing all the things which should not be done to prevent corrupt game data, etc. ... I don't need my game fixed, I want it broken xD

Anyway, just out of technical curiosity, and maybe some expert can answer me that, I never understood why babies are handled so super special by the game.
I wonder if someone can explain me why the following things are how they are, and maybe how I can get around them:
  • The "Sim Modder" debug object does not allow setting Sims back to the "Baby" stage, only back to Toddler.
  • Telling a toddler or older sim to behave like a baby (by cloning them after letting them grow up) breaks most of their animations and spams Object Errors. Even Sims trying to pick them up bug out and can only be reset (always wanted to grill an adult-like baby with the OMGWTFBBQ... cruel me!). Babies somehow seem to have a different rig / skeleton?
  • The "Tombstone of Life and Death" debug object only allows creating "New Baby", always creating a baby girl, never a baby boy. Other stages allow a distinct gender selection.
  • You cannot kill babies, unlike Toddlers which can be forced to die with "Rodney's Death Creator" (though they have pretty limited options). Maybe just because Maxis thought that would be too cruel (as if I care about some polygons...)

While most of these things were probably just left out from being easily accessibile because of simple cruelty, I wonder if babies aren't handled totally different by the game.
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Scholar
#2 Old 25th Apr 2016 at 9:23 PM
I think it's because they don't/can't do anything voluntarily, and they lie limp (baby cannot die via cowplant, electrocution from electronics, etc.)

The drop off has been made. You've been warned.
Mad Poster
#3 Old 25th Apr 2016 at 9:40 PM
There's a simple answer to all those questions. Babies are not Sims, they are objects. You can only revert a Sim back to toddler, because the first life stage where it's an actual Sim. Once it's become a Sim, it can't go back to being an object. Babies do have some character data, but as far as the game is concerned, they aren't Sims.

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Needs Coffee
retired moderator
#4 Old 25th Apr 2016 at 10:12 PM
Also the universal sims, Grim and Ideal Plantsims are also objects and just so you realize messing with them can fry your installation. Perhaps that is what you want to do. If you are cool with reinstalling everything or are on the UC that is fine, but just so you know.

"I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives." - Unknown
~Call me Jo~
Mad Poster
#5 Old 25th Apr 2016 at 10:15 PM
Objects or not, they are still cuter than those things in Sims 4.
Needs Coffee
retired moderator
#6 Old 25th Apr 2016 at 10:25 PM
Yes, sims 2 babies look like babies both the TS3 and TS4 versions look and act like animated dolls.

"I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives." - Unknown
~Call me Jo~
Mad Poster
#7 Old 25th Apr 2016 at 10:47 PM Last edited by simmer22 : 26th Apr 2016 at 6:34 PM.
Babies are a lot more like objects compared to toddler and above. They don't even have a proper skeleton with limbs, just joint blobs, like most other objects. They technically count as a life stage, and have some genetics applied (eyes/skin/eyebrow color), but the rest of the genetics they need for the next life stages won't be applied until they're toddlers, kinda like a placeholder. They also have any face genetics applied, just a choice between two face structures (if you count the alien one).

Basically, you can't roll back to the baby stage because it would break the sim (believe me - I've tried countless methods). Toddler is as far as the game will go, and if you try to force it, you'll only end up with a borked "baby-toddler/child/adult/teen" sim, which acts as a baby but looks like the other age. They can't be interacted properly with, and they're not easy to reset. I must admit, toddler-babies are rather fun to play around with (I love my little 'baby-genius', Amadeus).

The only (safe-ish) way to kill babies (that I know of) is the barbeque here at MTS, which is a gross (but again, the only) method. You can technically also use a mod to abort the baby before it's born. Or simply just quit before saving after a birth, if you're not happy with the result.

I think the "new baby" function might be a "clone this sim" function, and such clones tend to be the opposite gender than the selected sim. So maybe test with both male and female sims before you decide? I don't use it, so I don't know.

There's not much diference between the TS2 and TS3 babies, really. TS2/3 babies can be carried around and interacted more with. The TS4 babies have more in common with TS1 babies, in that hey're linked to the crib. But they're all placeholder objects with identical faces (except for genetics and CC). TS2 babies are the most fleshed-out babies, seeing as they've got proper animated legs, and have more animations. They also have proper genetic eye and eyebrow/hair colors. Plus, they're the cutest of the bunch and look more like the older sims, since they have very similar face structures and use the same face skin textures as the older sims.
Scholar
#8 Old 25th Apr 2016 at 10:55 PM
does anyone some technical know-how know why they make babies as objects instead of sims? is there a benefit to that? is it just easier?

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Mad Poster
#9 Old 25th Apr 2016 at 11:01 PM
No clue what so ever. I wish they were proper sims, because that would make a lot of things a lot easier (like making custom poses/animations, making clothes/hairs/whatever - it is possible, just with a lot of annoying workarounds) - but for whatever reason, EA/Maxis decided to make them objects with a very limited set of interactions.
Scholar
#10 Old 25th Apr 2016 at 11:37 PM
The BBQ doesn't give a death memory to adults. So I have to use a memory object that says they "Lost the baby" before they kill it. Or something like that. Makes for a good mystery story.

"No one remembers the baby dying...so what happened to it?"

"Oh look, my grandchild is now an elder. They grow up so fast. Gee, I wonder when I'll finally graduate college." Sims 2
Scholar
#11 Old 25th Apr 2016 at 11:38 PM
Quote: Originally posted by simmer22
I think the "new baby" function might be a "clone this sim" function, and such clones tend to be the opposite gender than the selected sim. So maybe test with both male and female sims before you decide? I don't use it, so I don't know.

That's correct, the new baby is always an opposite gender-clone of the sim that is active when you click the tombstone.
The only time it wasn't a clone was when I had rolled the pacifier before using the tombstone. The result was still an opposite-gender sim with correct hair/eyes, but it's facial features looked a little different than they should have on a clone. Or maybe I'm just even more faceblind than I'm aware of
Alchemist
#12 Old 26th Apr 2016 at 1:25 AM
babies being objects; aren't sims also objects?

the "New Baby" interaction on the Tombstone of L & D; in my game, it produces the opposite gender of the sim (if just 1 sim has the interaction).
Forum Resident
#13 Old 26th Apr 2016 at 5:12 AM
"Objects" in this case is used as a word for things that aren't sims. There are objects that look like sims, like Mrs Crumplebottom, but only have a limited amount of interactions available and getting them to do more is generally a bad idea.


By the way, PcMani, there's always Knut Futa is you want to play around with an adult-looking baby: http://sims.wikia.com/wiki/Knut_Futa
Scholar
#14 Old 26th Apr 2016 at 4:18 PM
Babies are in every way real sims, object type 2. They have the same original GUID as any other age so they use the human sim template, sim globals and pie menu. Their character file contains all of the face geometry etc. for every future age stage and they keep that file for life. Baby is a real life stage, it exists in every skin and pie menu. However very few pie menus enable babies to use so they can't do much. They do run a separate branch from the main behave to other life stages (Function - Main - Baby) which gives them no real autonomy, they can't be struck by lightning and will self extinguish if on fire. Their motive checks exclude the normal death checks and will self prevent hunger from dropping to absolute minimum so yes, they are handled differently and there's no real chance of a baby accidently dying.
Forum Resident
#15 Old 26th Apr 2016 at 4:43 PM
@ Chris Hatch - Wow, Speechless - Thanks for info
The Great AntiJen
retired moderator
#16 Old 26th Apr 2016 at 7:13 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Chris Hatch
self extinguish if on fire.

Well, there's a handy feature. I guess we could all benefit from that.

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Alchemist
#17 Old 26th Apr 2016 at 8:59 PM
baby exist in every skin? actually, the shipped version mannequin skin is one exception. the expansion creatures (shipped versions) I take to be the other exceptions.

baby on fire; have not yet seen it in game, but have in a Pixar movie. The Incredibles. also in the short film relating to that movie; Jack Jack Attack.
Mad Poster
#18 Old 26th Apr 2016 at 9:36 PM Last edited by simmer22 : 26th Apr 2016 at 9:53 PM.
Creature skins (except alien) lack several age stages, and nearly all are overlays. For the overlay skins, the sim has their genetic skin color in the bottom, and this is the one their kids have a chance of getting.

If I remember correctly, alien has all ages (is genetic), werewolf/witch/vampire/zombie has teen and up (overlays), plantsim has toddler/adult/elder (overlay), Ghost has either child or teen and up (overlay?), mannequin has toddler and up (is genetic, but lacks baby, and might crash the game if the baby inherits the skin), and the rest has adult only (bigfoot, genie, ..., all either overlays or special sim types)

So the only other life state actually meant for babies is alien.

(these are the 'by default' settings - there are of course mods and skin expansions and the like)

By default, the social worker will come and get kids/toddlers/babies before they have a chance to die, maybe except for a few cases regarding kids.
Field Researcher
#19 Old 29th Apr 2016 at 3:58 AM
Yes, what others have said. I've always felt it made it even more special when they grow up into a toddler. They're a *proper* sim now. Even if it may not be true in a technical sense, it makes me feel like they're... safer? More permanent?

For instance, in the early days of my Sims 2 playing, my neighborhood was in the process of exploding from corruption. I tried my best to save my mom's sims by cloning and exporting them via Sim PE. Baby couldn't be exported, obviously. I remember trying some way to get it within the household, but it ended up being an adult sim with the baby model floating. It was messed up. Mom said they weren't the same anyway, and to just leave them. I think that's what got her out of the sims, really. Ah, memories.
Mad Poster
#20 Old 29th Apr 2016 at 6:21 AM
You can export them via SimPE and they even show in Bodyshop. But you won't be able to add them IN game, since they won't show in premade sims.
This is really only useful if your sim had twins..and you'd like to make them identical, but have no clue which of the 2 you'd like better...

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