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Lab Assistant
#101 Old 3rd May 2010 at 11:00 PM
OM,
They changed the layout of the slot data 2 or 3 QA versions ago.
The X tree contains the data for the matrix's X Column
The Y tree contains the data for the matrix's Y Column
The Z tree contains the data for the matrix's Z Column

Each of the 3 data trees has 4 values , Rot1, Rot2, Rot3 & Pos .
The RotX values hold the matrix values for that column, top to bottom.
Pos holds the Position value, if you want to change how high a slot is
off the ground, you would edit the Y -> Pos value.

I'll explain, why it probably failed in a second, let's finnish talking about the 1st 3 values.
If A slot contained the following data:

X
  • Rot1 9
  • Rot2 8
  • Rot3 7
  • Pos 0

Y
  • Rot1 6
  • Rot2 5
  • Rot3 4
  • Pos 0.5

Z
  • Rot1 3
  • Rot2 2
  • Rot3 1
  • Pos 0.1

Then you would assemple the matrix top to bottom.
and left to right.

9 6 3
8 5 2
7 4 1

0 0.5 0.1

The 4th line is seperated to enphasize that it's the actual coordinates in XYZ format.

Now, your experiment probably failed because the rslt and _rig are,
both controlling the slot data and the _rig trumps
the rslt.
To over-ride the _rig, change the bone name of the slot you want to
customize to 0x00000000 .
and the slot will behave as expected.
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Alchemist
#102 Old 3rd May 2010 at 11:12 PM
Thank you for bearing with me RS. I was going by the image you posted above so now I'm a little lost and I appreciate you helping me

I think I understand what you're saying and I'm gonna give it a try Am I right in thinking that changing the value to 0.25 instead of 0.5 should lower the thing by 1/2? Also, is it possible to get new values from looking at where things are in MS...you know...looking in the bottom right corner where the x y z numbers are?
Alchemist
#103 Old 3rd May 2010 at 11:52 PM Last edited by orangemittens : 4th May 2010 at 12:08 AM.
Ok...another double post from me...I apologize all.

I tried changing the y pos to 0.25 and the bone to all zeros:



and what I got was the object hopping onto the table at the right height but looking somewhat squashed:



which made me think of cmo's post in the QA section here:

http://www.modthesims.info/showthread.php?t=400692

at post 4.

I think along with changing the height I've affected the scale of the object placed in that slot. All I want to do is change the height of the surface it jumps to. So now I'm confused...am I in the right place? Any help with this is very much appreciated

And rot 2 was 0.5 when I started with this object...I switched it once but then changed it back...could this switch have spoiled the clone so I need to reclone for this to work?

ETA: Well with this clone I went back and changed the y rot 2 to 1.0 and that worked.



So I'm not sure if somehow I was misremembering the number that went there (I don't think so) or if maybe changing the rot number before made it so now I had to change it again to be double or what. But now things are working

If this change does mean I now have to change the rot 2 number it is unclear to me why that should be for this coffee table object when it wasn't true for the shelving objects y'all made. I'm gonna reclone just to be sure I didn't mark down the numbers incorrectly.
Lab Assistant
#104 Old 4th May 2010 at 3:18 AM
easy there OM

Yes it seem you triggered a scale function

if you set the matrix to a neutral setting, everything will be ok
1 0 0
0 1 0
0 0 1

Yes 0.25 is 1/2 of 0.50, but to be more specific, in TS3 0.25 = 0.25 meters and 0.50 = 0.50 meters
So a y coord of 0.50 is 1/2 meter above the ground and a setting of 0.25 would be 1/4 meter above the ground

In MS if you set the grid scal;e to 1.0, it'll dispplay everything extremely close to TS3's scale
and you could create a dummy box and move it around to see where different XYZ settings would place
place a slot using those coordinates, in-game.

if you need help in getting more precise coordinates for place a slot, then set the grid size to 0.01.
Then 100 squares in MS would equal 1 square in TS3, Then you could position a dummy box as a slot
and count the number of grid lines below the box's bottom and divide by 100 and you would have
a 2 decimal point coordinate, you could then judge how far up it is between the 2 grid lines it's sitting on
and get a 3rd decimal place.

If you look at the attachment, I made an example.
In the image the highest vertex has 104 grid lines below it.
Now look at the 2 lines the vertex is between, how far above the
bottom line is it? my guess is that it is 65% of the way to the next line.
That would be 0.65 plus the 104 = 104.65 .
If I divide that by 100 I get 1.0465, and If i use that number as
my Y coordinate for a container slot, an item placed on it should sit
very nicely on the mesh in the image.

Oh and don't forget to reset the grid size in MS
Screenshots
Lab Assistant
#105 Old 4th May 2010 at 3:29 AM Last edited by Raven Shadow : 4th May 2010 at 12:07 PM.
Quote: Originally posted by orangemittens
Also, is it possible to get new values from looking at where things are in MS...you know...looking in the bottom right corner where the x y z numbers are?


To be less confussing i'm aswering this with a seperate post.

In addition the method I mentioned in the above post, you could
also do it the easy way.
The numbers in the bottom right?
there are no numbers there, the animation control, when visible appear there.
and the mouses coordinates appear in the bottom left.
Don't use either when calculating slot positions.

Instead, and this only works for the Y coordinate, open the hi res mesh
of the object in MS and select one of the vertices that is used to make the face you want the slot to sit on.

Now press ctrl+shift+E to open the Manuel Edit Window,
Then put a check in the "Show Only Selected" box.

Don't freak out if it says you have 2 or 3 vertices selected, that's normal.
Take the Y-Coordinate listed for the vertex and round it up to the 4th
decimal place and voila, you have the Y-Coordinate for your slot.

For example if the vertex's Y-coordinate is 1.997763, after rounding it would
become 1.9978
˙uʍop ǝpᴉsdn ǝɹ,noʎ 'oN
#106 Old 4th May 2010 at 5:22 AM
I use the first method. I took the mesh from the tissue box and use that as a guide to where to place slots. In Blender, I select the tissue box mesh(with its local origin at 0,0,0) and move it where I want the slot, then push "N" to pull up the Transformation properties. It lists the values you need, you have to switch the Y and the Z coords, though.

"Part of being a mesher is being persistent through your own confusedness" - HystericalParoxysm
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Alchemist
#107 Old 4th May 2010 at 12:27 PM
Oops...I meant the numbers in the bottom left of MS...sorry about that. It's too bad we can't use those how we did in Sims 2 to get the numbers we need for changing height.

As far as the matrix thing goes it seems like when I changed my rot 2 on the y to a 1 that it turned the whole matrix of my object to what you have posted above...I just checked and all the other numbers match up. It was only the rot 2 which was off. How did the object work before with its matrix like that? (treat as a rhetorical question if you want...lol).

I think I'll try both of those methods for finding the coordinates...thank you for posting them
Lab Assistant
#108 Old 4th May 2010 at 11:25 PM
X 0 0
0 Y 0
0 0 Z

This is called an Identity matrix, if all of the 3 missing values are ones, and the other 6 values are zeroes,
then it means do nothing to the object or it's position.
If any of the XYZ values are not 1, then that value is a scale value for that axis only,
but if any of the other 6 values are not zero's then the entire matrix is probably a rotation matrix instead.

When creating a NEW slot ( not just changing an existing slot) you should set it's matrix as an identity matrix
(setting XY & Z all equal to 1 ) just for the sake of correctness and to make sure no bugs are created.
Of course, there may come a time when you want to use a rotation matrix, to make a sim sitting at an angle
in a corner seat, for example, in such a case .... good luck
Alchemist
#109 Old 4th May 2010 at 11:49 PM
That clarifies things tremendously...thank you for posting it. I'm not up to rotation matrices yet...I'm still playing with the standard matrix for surfaces. (I've been able to delete slots I don't want which is something I've wanted to be able to do since I started meshing for this game.)

And of course, since I had to work today and couldn't concentrate on the information you posted about how to find the numbers to put in, I'm working on that too. But this is great...being able to control slots like this. Thanks to both you and Cmo for making it possible
Alchemist
#110 Old 5th May 2010 at 12:21 AM
Sorry again for the double post. I tried the second method and came up with a y coordinate of 2.234 for my surface. I used the same coffee table clone I've been using all along an raised it quite a bit...used method 2...and changed all the y pos lines in the rslt as previously described.

When the object came into the game it looked fine and didn't seem to cause any problems...but nothing will hop onto it. I'm going back to re-do it (I saved the clone of the other one so I can just re-use that) but I don't think I made any mistakes...all I changed was the MLOD1/MODL to be the new height and the y pos values for every slot.

I'm not sure what's happening with this object...is it possible there is a y "ceiling"?
˙uʍop ǝpᴉsdn ǝɹ,noʎ 'oN
#111 Old 5th May 2010 at 12:26 AM
Not that I know of, but 2.234 is quite high; dining tables are only around 0.8.

"Part of being a mesher is being persistent through your own confusedness" - HystericalParoxysm
| (• ◡•)| (❍ᴥ❍ʋ) [◕ ‿ ◕]
Alchemist
#112 Old 5th May 2010 at 12:48 AM
I tried again with 1.6312 and the same thing happened. This was using a copy of the clone I made that I shortened and everything worked fine with shortening it. But trying to make it taller I'm running into problems. I've changed only the MLOD/MODL and the y pos values...is there something I'm forgetting?
Lab Assistant
#113 Old 5th May 2010 at 1:07 AM
yeah, you didn't say that you changed the bone name for the slot.

Also, open the package in TSRW, you don't have to use to make your object, but you can use it to SEE where the slot is moving to.
Alchemist
#114 Old 5th May 2010 at 1:27 AM Last edited by orangemittens : 5th May 2010 at 1:59 AM.
I was using a copy of the clone I had already changed the bone name in. So this is a clone that already was successful in lowering the surface. Besides the bone, which I already changed for each y pos change, is there anything else I need to change that I'm not thinkin' of?

I don't have TSRW and have no plans to get it. It was these tools where all of this was figured out in how to do this. TSRW slot tutorial came out after (and took from the information here...yours and Cmo's) if I'm not mistaken...so these tools should be able to do it if it can be done

My problem isn't that the slots aren't matching up...my problem is that all the slots have become non-functional. I don't need to see where the slots are...I know where they are...they aren't working...and I cannot figure out why.

ETA: NM...cmo was right again. It's working
Lab Assistant
#115 Old 5th May 2010 at 4:56 AM
For all of you people in this thread working hard on slots and tearing your hair out over their close association with the elusive RIGs...suffer no longer! For it is hear, a rig editor that does not require an expensive program like 3DS Max to be used.

Here it is, my S3 RIG Maker Tool!

Please download it! Please help me test it! And finally, rejoice!
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