Hi there! You are currently browsing as a guest. Why not create an account? Then you get less ads, can thank creators, post feedback, keep a list of your favourites, and more!
Instructor
Original Poster
#26 Old 24th Mar 2009 at 1:05 PM
I read somewhere, but I forget the link.

The reason why EA won't make an import mesh tool for The Sims 3, is because EA can't guarantee 100% the tool will work. Since mods and custom content is a risk, that every gamer who use mods, know that the mods or custom content isn't 100% work fine like EA made. EA just waiting for someone else to make the tool. Officially EA won't support the custom contents instead only from CAS.

I think not 100% work is just fine, rather than no. Every modder, custom contents and mods user know the risk too.
Advertisement
world renowned whogivesafuckologist
retired moderator
#27 Old 24th Mar 2009 at 2:31 PM
They're not going to make us a tool because they'd have to pay people to do that. They know the modding community will figure it out sooner or later, but never as good as if they provided their own tools, so rather than having to pay programmers to do it, they'll just let us muddle our ways through.

They could take a page from Bethesda, who releases extremely powerful modding tools for their games shortly after release, which can allow you to do just about anything you want, and closely resemble what the developers must have used to make the game in the first place.

Furthermore, all these "I heards" and "I thought I saw somewheres" and "Someone told me thats" really... need to stop, honestly. As I said before, if the game is worth playing, there WILL be a modding community, there WILL be quality custom content for it, and it WILL be successful. They haven't made it so it's not moddable - actually, exactly the opposite - we just have to do it ourselves, again, so people will have to be patient till the file formats are figured out and the tools are created. But all this running around waving your hands in the air helps nothing, and just looks silly. Sit down, calm down, enjoy playing TS2 for now, and be patient once TS3 comes out.

my simblr (sometimes nsfw)

“Dude, suckin’ at something is the first step to being sorta good at something.”
Panquecas, panquecas e mais panquecas.
Instructor
Original Poster
#28 Old 24th Mar 2009 at 6:40 PM
If there other game makes modding tool for their game. Even they already planned since the beginning of the project. Why EA can forget such important thing from the beginning of The Sims 3 project?

In the Sims 2, learning new modding/custom content tutorial is so long and tired. Making the new custom content takes so many hours, days even weeks. Very tired.

I just hope a better, simple, user friendly and faster tool. That can reduce so much time and energy when creating custom content, without need to modify the evil code in SimPE.

Making a new mesh for cloth or a copy of them (with new ID), takes many steps. I just hope it can be reduced to 1 or 2 step only.

Simple and fast. Pointing cloth texture to the mesh is also just 1 or 2 click process, rather than needed to open the deep code, etc.

Upgrading an furniture object to make it compatible with the expansion pack, just need a 1 or 2 step. First auto searching the package file in download folder and a single button to upgrade all of it at once, to the latest installed expansion pack. Example: computer with seasons and freetime. You just need a simple process to upgrade all custom content computers in download folder, from season to freetime.
Instructor
Original Poster
#29 Old 25th Mar 2009 at 8:46 PM
It's taken from this forum:

http://www.snootysims.com/forums/vi...hp?f=34&t=28146

05. Here is the reason why the development team decided not to make a BodyShop or alphas to edit (allowing players to modify transparencies and opacity, creating long and short sleeves where possible, etc.) and why they didn't come up with a tool to edit meshes... in the Sims Division there are several ingeneers that work on meshes for clothing, objects and other stuff, and they use a professional programto do that, called Maya, and everything they create must be adequate to certain standards, must work with every interactions, body shapes and stuff. What players have created for The Sims 2 is a universe of customizations, which is often badly created, incomplete and inadequate to EA standards. For example, have you ever downloaded a dress that doesn't change when a Sim gets fat or walks? They can't sell something like that. If you have seen those "Lost & Found" objects, they are objects that haven't been included in the game and hidden in the gamecode for this reason, and later extracted by experienced modders. They wouldn't even know how to create a mesh tool that supports all the animations that their professional utilities do. They don't say that the community will not find a way to do that, or maybe they will help us in some way... just that in the meantime, no new meshes or alphas.


That's mean a nightmare for the modder. The Sims 3 will be hard to modding. I wonder why EA did not plan from the beginning to make TS3 is easy to modding. Instead taking another path.
world renowned whogivesafuckologist
retired moderator
#30 Old 25th Mar 2009 at 9:30 PM
Sims 2 modding is relatively straightforward compared to other games. Go try to do a hair mesh for Oblivion or Fallout 3 (WITH official modding tools!), then come back here and tell me how hard it is for TS2. I dare you. :P

They don't do Sims stuff because they don't have to, plain and simple. They know our community will do it for them, so why the heck should they have to pay someone to make something that we'll do ourselves? They can say it's because they just can't do it to meet their high standards but frankly, that's a load of crap - just look at how often we've had to fix their issues with their creations, correcting their mistakes. Yeah, a lot of custom stuff is crap too, but it's pretty easy to not download stuff that doesn't say it includes a fat morph or is bucket filled or whatever. It's just greed and laziness on their part, not some grand desire to raise standards. Hell, they wouldn't be so cuddly with TSR if they actually valued quality half as much as they say they do. :P

my simblr (sometimes nsfw)

“Dude, suckin’ at something is the first step to being sorta good at something.”
Panquecas, panquecas e mais panquecas.
Warrior Gryphon
site owner
#31 Old 25th Mar 2009 at 9:42 PM
Quote:
Making a new mesh for cloth or a copy of them (with new ID), takes many steps. I just hope it can be reduced to 1 or 2 step only.

Simple and fast. Pointing cloth texture to the mesh is also just 1 or 2 click process, rather than needed to open the deep code, etc.


Ahahhaha 1 or 2 step modding? Go away and, please, stop asking the impossible. This is not some 2d thing done in Paint thank you very much.

You have absolutely NO IDEA of the complexities of the SceneGraph chain and NO IDEA how hard it is to even MAKE the tools in the first place and NO IDEA how long it has taken the tools to get to the state they are in now - and thats backed up by a huge tutorial and helpful community. So what if you can't do something in one or two steps. You know what *I* would do in that situation? I'd stop complaining about it and actually make a tool that does it, if it's possible! (And, believe me, not everything is).

Yes, Sims 3 will be hard to mod. But then SO IS THE SIMS 2. What don't you get? There was no SimPE at the start. There was no Meshtool. All you could do was clothing. We had to work *months* to get the file formats working and really, if it's the same way in the Sims 3 - so what? People like you have such stupid expectations that you think everything should be easy and have XYZ modding tool released when the game is done and everything is done in one or two steps when in reality, no it aint gonna be like that and it will require actual WORK and actual BRAINPOWER. If you dont have what it takes to actually MAKE something work in the game then I suggest you go back to just playing and leave the modding to the people that know what they are talking about.

As a tool creator I am offended at how easy you seem to think it is. Regardless of what you would LIKE to see, it aint gonna happen so please take your unreasonable expectations and kindly shush.

Thank you.
Instructor
Original Poster
#32 Old 26th Mar 2009 at 6:43 AM
I don't know anything about programmer thing, but if someone can make an easy program to use, I think it's a great thing, right?

One or two steps of tool, may be it won't be happen, but at least it has those simple.

Like example: If you want to mod or making a new mesh. Just open the mod tool, all the mesh inside the game will automatically appear, including the preview thumbnail. Just select which one you want to mod and click export button. Then you can open and edit it with another 3D program. When it's done. Using the mod tool, select the file (or may be drag and drop) and click import. It will ask about replace the old file or creating a new ID. If you select the new ID, and enter the new name too. For a new mesh, you can also pointed the texture to new mesh, by drag n drop on it or click add texture button, find it in explorer and click attach/point it. It's done. When you start the game the new mesh will be there.

Well, may be making those kind of tool will be long and harder....or the game engine itself is so complicated, that even making those kind of tool is almost impossible. I can't complain or protesting, since I'm not programmer, I don't know anything about it. But at least it still a great idea.

What do you think?
Field Researcher
#33 Old 28th Mar 2009 at 4:29 PM
Quote: Originally posted by HystericalParoxysm
They can say it's because they just can't do it to meet their high standards but frankly, that's a load of crap - just look at how often we've had to fix their issues with their creations, correcting their mistakes.


I know, I saw that and I was like *oh no you DI'INT!* Maxis meshes tend to be no better than good and sometimes only adequate. Most of their maps are cartoonish and uninspiring. They have *no* room to say things like that, and owe the modding community an apology, I think. If it weren't for the fantastic quality of user content, many people would have gotten bored with TS2 long ago.

*Also, 'word' on the fixes.
#34 Old 28th Mar 2009 at 6:18 PM
The big complaint I only really have about the game..and Sims 1, 2 is basically the ugly objects, hair, etc they left us with. I understand how much detail, etc went into all the games..and I'm grateful for that, but really is it difficult to make a few decent items, the a lot of the ugly crap we've seen in the games? I mean I've made a few myself, simple things. I was always surprised for such an amazing game/s a lot of the things in the sims like I mentioned above as you said are so cartoonish, it's almost like it sets the game back.
Theorist
#35 Old 28th Mar 2009 at 6:23 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Delphy
....You have absolutely NO IDEA of the complexities of the SceneGraph chain and NO IDEA how hard it is to even MAKE the tools in the first place and NO IDEA how long it has taken the tools to get to the state they are in now - and thats backed up by a huge tutorial and helpful community. So what if you can't do something in one or two steps. You know what *I* would do in that situation? I'd stop complaining about it and actually make a tool that does it, if it's possible! (And, believe me, not everything is).....


Really, to all of that;

Well said



That, really, is all


BodyShopped /// ShoofleedSims
♦ // Jack.exe // ♦
/
world renowned whogivesafuckologist
retired moderator
#36 Old 28th Mar 2009 at 6:25 PM
Celebritron, the parts you describe are the super easy things to do. It's like 5 minutes to make a new clone and set up all its details in SimPE, including price, name, description, GUID, importing the mesh and textures (assuming you have all that already set up and ready to go). Yeah, it means meshing isn't as friendly to beginners, but a program that Fisher-Price-ifies the actual cloning process still can't handhold you through meshing and texturing. There have been innovations in terms of making the tedious parts of cloning easier - like PJSE's body mesh functions which allow you to grab the mesh parts and link them to a recolour quite easily. But even so, for anyone who's done a mesh once or twice, the actual parts in SimPE are maybe 10 minutes, max, with the actual hard parts spent in meshing, uv mapping, and texturing. Y'know... the stuff that requires actual skill, artistic ability, and isn't going to be something any modding tool that gets the stuff in the game is going to provide in any case.

Yeah, tool creators could make a fall-off-a-log easy user interface - or they could spend their time adding useful features for people skilled enough to actually make use of the thing in the first place. Me, I'd prefer the latter.

my simblr (sometimes nsfw)

“Dude, suckin’ at something is the first step to being sorta good at something.”
Panquecas, panquecas e mais panquecas.
Test Subject
#37 Old 28th Apr 2009 at 1:33 PM
Quote: Originally posted by tizerist_
i must admit i'm quite baffled by EA's stance on modding on TS3.

"We're not going to let you, but we're not going to stop you either"


This is for plausible deniability. Ya see, while most mods are harmless add ons for the sims or minor revisions to keep sims from doing annoying stuff like looking out windows all day, some are downright controversial. Think of the same sex marriage mods or the teen pregnancy mods or the marajuana smoking mods, etc. If EA supports modding this comes along with giving better hair or custom clothing to your sims, and it's this that the media pounces on, not the nifty new fridge an inventive modder made. EA wants modders to make controversy, to make these attention getting mods, but they can't publically endorse them. Look at Sims 2. EA has given a lot of backdoor help to modders. If they remain smart, they'll do so for Sims 3. It may take a few months, but it will come.

Ofcourse this assumes they actually go through with the June 2nd release of Sims 3.
#38 Old 30th Apr 2009 at 3:29 PM
Quote: Originally posted by aeverett
This is for plausible deniability. Ya see, while most mods are harmless add ons for the sims or minor revisions to keep sims from doing annoying stuff like looking out windows all day, some are downright controversial. Think of the same sex marriage mods or the teen pregnancy mods or the marajuana smoking mods, etc. If EA supports modding this comes along with giving better hair or custom clothing to your sims, and it's this that the media pounces on, not the nifty new fridge an inventive modder made. EA wants modders to make controversy, to make these attention getting mods, but they can't publically endorse them. Look at Sims 2. EA has given a lot of backdoor help to modders. If they remain smart, they'll do so for Sims 3. It may take a few months, but it will come.

Ofcourse this assumes they actually go through with the June 2nd release of Sims 3.

Yeah, it seems to be that the complexity of modding sims 3 will be about the same as that of sims 2. That raises a smile for me, cause in the early days I had a vision of a game in which you could only modify textures and that was it. A high-tech, unmoddable game. Would have been a shame had it been like that, eh?
Test Subject
#39 Old 11th May 2009 at 4:48 PM
One of the reasons I played Sims 2 for so long was the custom content. I prefer my sims NOT fashion challenged.
Instructor
#40 Old 11th May 2009 at 5:34 PM
I'm far from tech-savvy but I would assume that since they're going to be offering items for the game (objects, textures, patterns, etc) through pre-orders and the official Sims 3 store would mean modding the game is possible somehow.

Those items have to end up in the game after all. Just like our custom content. It's external to the game and we import it in.

I'm not to worried about it, I've never been a fan of custom content anyway, but I would eventually love to import my own textures and patterns (and I believe that will be possible eventually, thanks to the community). The technical people amongst us just need to figure out how it works.
Field Researcher
#41 Old 12th May 2009 at 12:49 AM
Lol! The game is not even here yet and already there's hash slinging going on!

In any event, like said before, the game is just codes, numbers, formulas, etc., and if it could be modded before, it will be "moddable" (is that a George Bushanism?) again! I'm frankly quite glad there are intellectual people out there that are able to do this - and will do this - as I lack the ability and/or patience to do it. I'm happy to be just one of the players and not the fixers. Thanks to all of you who dedicate such time and effort into making the game happier for those of us unable to do it.

I'm sorry EA isn't making it any easier to mod, but then again, they are selling a product and what company in their right mind would sell all their secrets? It's their game. I think they should just go ahead and hire those of you who are so great at hacking into the game and figuring all this stuff out, because they could certainly use your talents and creativity. But then again, if it became your job rather than your passion to have fun playing the game the way you want to play it, you might not put as much effort into it (I'm just guessing here). When fun becomes a job, it's no longer fun. I'm sure you all already feel that way about it sometimes, especially when ungrateful people start griping about something that isn't done the way they want it done.

Heck, I wouldn't doubt if the creator camps where simply a way for EA to scout out new employees with new ideas. Also, they probably needed all the fresh ideas and information from these people who play the game all the time to give them something to work toward so they can make more money from us all in the long run.

I'll just take it like it is for now and enjoy it, until the fresh mods start popping out, then I'll come and visit you all to see your wonderful new ideas and creations! Thanks again for all your hard work and talents!
#42 Old 12th May 2009 at 12:52 AM
I think part of the problem of this complete panic over this modding tool not being put in game is the fact that most people just can't be bothered to figure anything out. If you're that desperate to make a mod, read tutorials. make a plan. map it out and soon enough you'll have your mod. People are just generally impatient and want everything done for them.
Field Researcher
#43 Old 12th May 2009 at 1:16 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Dozo
I think part of the problem of this complete panic over this modding tool not being put in game is the fact that most people just can't be bothered to figure anything out. If you're that desperate to make a mod, read tutorials. make a plan. map it out and soon enough you'll have your mod. People are just generally impatient and want everything done for them.


Well, maybe, but some people just don't have the intellect to do these things. The modders here that have stated they felt EA/Maxis could have made it a little easier for them to mod don't necessarily fall into that pigeon hole. They do have the intellect and talent to do these things, but the way I read it, they just feel EA/Maxis could have worked with them some, like previously when EA/Maxis rewrote the coding/numbering system so that a specific set of numbers were reserved for EA/Maxis and the creating community could be safe in using a different set of codes/numbers that wouldn't clash with theirs.

The real talented people aren't asking for a simple "click it" tool, they know it's not that simple to do. Just like Delphy was saying, there is a whole heck of a lot more to it than just what a one or two click-step tool could handle. It takes many many steps to create a true work of art, rather than a muddled half-cloned mess that might look good at first, but then fall apart at the coding level.

So it's not really just a matter of someone not wanting to be bothered with how to figure it all out - a lot of us are simple folks who just want a game we can play and make a few changes to if we like. Me, for now, I'm happy with the ability to make things match with the new recoloring tool and I dont have any desire to attempt to create things that modify how the game works, I'll let the pros do that. But others, they're going to want a lot more from it.

Then there are those in between who don't realize how hard it is to make all these modifications and think it should be quicker and easier to do. They want the jump from the fresh slate to the end product to be a short jump, and don't want to be bothered with what it actually takes to get to the end product. It doesn't make them bad people, they're just "unaware".
#44 Old 13th May 2009 at 9:15 AM
One question that kind of has to do with this... How much experience will S2 modders be able to take from S2 and apply to S3? The engine looks similar, with a few new bits. (Coming from someone who doesn't mod 3D Sims but does know quite a large amount about game engines, like Source and Gamebryo)
Page 2 of 2
Back to top