I can get everything including a decent garden on a 3 by 3 lot. Also smaller fits into hoods better. For me larger than that is for community lots.

This is heading in the direction of just all of our different preferences in terms of gameplay. I've certainly made 3x3 (or smaller) lots that I really liked (and that weren't skyscrapers, which are often just as big as any 5x6 lot!), but I often prefer larger lots in my game, at least for apartments or legacy households for old-money families.

I notice that I tend to treat lot size as a way of imitating differing land values in my neighborhoods though- the denser and more urban a neighborhood, the smaller the lots are. Ergo, downtown has lots of 2x2 and 2x3 lots with skyscrapers, midtown has 3x3, 3x4, and occasional 4x4 lots with a mix of buildings, and the suburbs and rural areas are filled with sprawling estates and ranches on 5x5 and 5x6 lots.

We've also started wandering quite far from the actual topic... intentional communities. Maybe planning a community is easier than planning a conversation!

Yes it has wandered quite a ways off. I was just over at creator feedback and saw your lovely school, but my next thought was how do your sims get down to play soccer without having to go back really soon to use a toilet when it must take so long to walk from point A to point B?

This thread inspired me to go and play my Riverwood self sufficient hood again and opening up the lead family I had forgotten they had twins last time I played lol. The twin babies are squished into their parents room in one tile cribs and the toddler daughter is on a mat squished in with her elder brother. Some of the toddlers toys and activity table are now outside. A real contrast to those large lots. They need the carpenter to come and extend their house pronto. Not to say they wouldn't do an IOU being a commune community, but they do prefer to have enough to barter upfront.

Well, for once Gummilutt and I don't agree.

I use small lots, exclusively, for standard single-family dwellings. No bigger than 3x4, and for it to be 3x4 it has to be pretty damn special. And usually it's one where I sculpt the landscape so that most of it is merely decorative and not Sim-accessible at all. Like, oh, this one:. http://dramallamadingdang.tumblr.co...-that-i-started

That's a 3x4 lot that takes up the whole corner, but the only part that's actually usable is the part that the house itself sits on.(And it's not a big house) and maybe 5 or 6 tiles around the footprint. But that's an exceptional lot built because I was in a mood. Mostly I build 2x2, 2x3, and 3x3 and, for me, they are plenty big enough. Mostly, they're like this: http://dramallamadingdang.tumblr.co...ler-i-call-this

That one's 3x2, built into a slope, has three big bedrooms and, by my standards, lots of living space. That said, I don't bother with gardens because 1) My landscaping skills suck and 2) My pixels never seem to use them (They do a lot of free-willing). So to me, big gardens and a lot of outdoor stuff is just a waste of space. Every once in a blue moon, I'll give a family a pool, but not often. They're more likely to get a hot tub; they take up less space and the pixels actually use them more when free-willing.

I also don't like clutter and a lot of stuff, so I have no need of huge houses. Plus, it kind of ticks me off when a pixel takes an hour to walk from one end of their house to another. Basically, I focus on making compact but playable floor plans, and I like the outside to look good and like average houses that one would see out here in the real world. But I'm totally not into interior decorating at all. My tendency is to play big families (Thanks to ACR) on small lots, so I'm all about cramming 'em in there; there's not a lot of room left over for extraneous stuff and things. They don't usually get skilling items other than a bookcase (For other items, they have to go to a community lot). Kids are lucky if they get a toybox (but are pretty likely to get a lemonade stand, because that goes outside), and they certainly never have their own room. At least, not for long. Usually they're sharing a (small) room with at least two siblings. Because, you know, they're pixels; they're not territorial like real kids. So that's how I fit families of twelve into small 3-bedroom houses on 2x2 lots. Can't play without my bunk beds!

Basically, I'd rather cram 'em in on small lots than play big lots where it's hard to find the little buggers when they go off to do their things and they tend to miss the bus/carpool because they're waaaaaaaay on the other side of a hugenormous lot and thus take two hours to get to the portal, by which time the bus/car has left. Nah, I'd rather cram 'em in like sardines, and I don't mind moving pixels around with move_objects if traffic jams occur.

That said, I like LOOKING at pics of large, gorgeously-decorated lots. I just won't build, download, or play such things. Which, I suppose, is why I mostly build my own stuff, except for plasticbox's old "Newbie Road" houses. I still use those extensively in neighborhoods where I go, "You know what? I'm just gonna play this one and not build a damn thing for it." Which happens surprisingly often, actually. All that said...Well, it all depends on how you like to play. I really, truly don't understand why people say they have to have huge lots, but I also probably don't play exactly the same way as anyone else, either. So, diff'rent strokes, and all that.

Oh and vaguely on topic, which I meant to say but got carried away with teal deer yammering: Those residential lots on my communes? The ones mean to house about 20 Sims? They're on 3x2 lots. Granted, they don't have everything. They are, as I said, basically a dorm with a bathhouse, no kitchens or "living areas," especially. Still, small lot, lots of pixels crammed in. Yay for shelf beds, one-tile cribs, and bunk beds.

I don't have to use huge lots! I can stop anytime I want!

I probably spend 20 times as long designing lots as I ever do playing them (Not exaggerating- if anything, I'm underestimating that. I basically use the Sims as an architectural design program, rather than a virtual dollhouse) so that's a big part of why I tend to like larger lots or taller buildings for my designs. I prefer grand designs to practical gameplay, and I'm often more concerned with whether a lot will work in the real world than I am with whether it would work for my Sims. (that's one of the things I keep having to check myself with when it comes to my uploads- I've come close to sharing things that would never work for a Sim without realizing it, just because they look good!) As I see it, a blue-blood's manor house looks naked without the sweeping lawns and manicured gardens surrounding it.

Even when I do play, about half the time I'm playing a supernatural Sim, so they'll either be able to Magivestigium wherever they need to go, or eventually learn to teleport from a Ninja... I've made lots (on purpose) that would be completely unplayable for a normal Sim, and just had the resident teleport around it (added bonus: the house was completely burglar-proof), but even when the only obstacle to easy play is size, a Sim can just POOF from one side to the other.

It does depend what I'm trying to achieve though... I don't have huge lots in my urban 'hoods for the most part. My Nosferatu Court apartments come from a neighborhood that's built on the Veronaville terrain, and I'm just filling the entire space with artsy, bohemian lots packed one next to the other, rarely being bigger than 2x4... essentially an entire neighborhood of starving artists. Maybe I should get a few of those prepped for upload!

For a commune or an insular community though, I tend to want it to feel like an entire community, rather than just a single building, so for those, I wouldn't want to play a smaller lot- it just wouldn't feel right!

Like you said though, to each their own- the point of a sandbox game like this is that there isn't a "right" way to play it!

I could be wrong, but I tend to think that small lots are more attractive to more people who download, specifically because those folks are usually folks who can't or don't want to build for themselves, and they're looking for lots to plop into their game and play. And, because of for instance computer specs, they might not be able to play huge lots without annoying amounts of lag, among other things. Or they just might not want to. In any case, those of us who build more or less exclusively (And that's how I started out, too. It took me about a year before I really got into playing the game...and now I generally want to play more than I want to build) do tend to have very different priorities than those who play more or less exclusively, indeed. Like I said, what I build in the game is geared for how I play, and for me playability trumps everything else in importance. OTOH, If I get a jones for real "architectural design," then I'll load up my actual architectural CAD program, not the game; it's hella easier to build whatever I want in CAD. (Although sometimes what I build in CAD I'll "translate" into the game, if I think it will work well.) And then, when I think something I've built might be more "universally" playable, I'll offer it for download, if it's not a beach lot (I build a lot of those, and they're fussy about placement) or something that has funky-ass not-flat edges and if it doesn't have a buttload of CC. So...Yeah, I don't upload lots often.

In any case, for communal pixel-living...Yeah, I tried to put everything on one lot a few times, but I just didn't like it. Too big, pixels got lost too easily in them, and eventually there were just too many pixels present for the lot to be, to me, fun anymore., so then I'd abandon it and usually its whole neighborhood, because I'm something of a stickler for playing in rotation and never leaving any pixels behind, so to speak. So in the end I found it easier to break communes up and make it a whole subhood. I could still easily get the communal feel by using community lots more extensively and teleporting in any pixels I wanted on it at any given time. So, the residential lots became pretty much just the places where sleeping and infant care happened...although sleeping on the community lots happens, too, since I have the mod that allows it and the farm lot has tents on it for pixels who need a nap...or a woohoo. . With Community Time installed, I can also have households stay on community lots for multiple days and not have to live that time over again when they do eventually return to the residential lot.

In any case, pretty much everything of importance in my commune 'hoods happens on community lots with pretty much all of the commune members present...but not all controllable at once, so it never gets overwhelming. I mean, I'm quite capable of playing tons of pixels at once. I've done so often in the past, not just with communes but also with large polygamous/polyamorous households that tended large farms and such. But I found that my personal enjoyment of massive households has a threshold, and it tops out around 20 pixels, fewer if there are lots of toddlers in the mix. If there are more pixels than that, the annoyances start to outweigh the fun. Yet, I do like to play in a sort of communal style, so the way I play them now was the compromise I eventually reached. It's made it more fun for me to play them and, at the end of the day, that's what really matters..

This time I'm with icad, small house lots and bunk beds all the way. A long time ago I had a royal kingdom hood for the Royal Kingdom challenge and those poor royal kids up in the castle could not make it over the bridge and down all the steps to catch the bus, so I had to move objects on them every morning. Lovely castle, but stuff like that drives me nuts so I moved them all out and built them a much smaller castle which wasn't up the top of a hill. While I like to build, I like to play more. I usually only build when I'm bored of playing. I just had a sim learn to telport from the ninja, I'd forgotten how useful that is, but it doesn't work for kids.

Well back on topic... My woodcutter had 13 piles of wood from Rebeka's wood cutting tree so they traded for 13 mouth watering tomatoes. 13 walls may not seem like much of an extension, but it will do me.

Another helpful and interesting thread here!

In the past I have only played this type of closed community using seperate, yet interconnected, household lots. My current community was begun on one farm type lot by a Sim who moved to a sub hood (of a small custom town) when she became an adult. She became pregnant twice (via a cheat object) and has recruited help by turning the farm into a job training and skill building place for prisoners. (Prisoner tokens are used) The AddneighbortoFamily cheat has been used to move in an elder gentleman Sim who works in the penal system and who manages prisoners during thier confinment on the farm. (Good way to improve teen, adult and elder townnies!) This cheat was also used to move in a teen as a foster child who is now part of the community.

I use a mod that keeps the social worker away and use the maxmotives cheat as needed.

Members are carefully recruited (some might say kidnapped) townies of all ages. They are not allowed to socialize with any Sim outside of the Sunflower Community other than the leader's mother - who runs an orphanage in the main neighborhood.

Members do not own vehicles, televisions,computers or radios. Over time they will move out in groups established around a particular trade or craft onto seperate lots. They will keep in close contact over the telephone and by visiting one anothers compounds.

Each group of members will own a business. A community bank will soon be established. They are allowed to hire outsiders to work in thier businesses, however, they never hire outsiders to perform any service on thier commune lots.

This is an isolated mountain community and all of the buildings are attractive log structures. Each lot generates its own "green energy". Community members may visit only Sunflower Community lots. After building a lot (as always) a copy is saved to file.

I, like Zara, use teleport to get around the size of a lot. Everyone used to visit takemizu when they turn children, to learn to teleport, but now I have a mod that lets them learn it from home, so they'll learn from their parents instead. I don't find they ever have trouble reaching the car pool or school bus in time, but teleport saves some time. I also make use of Sims with high enough activity to run instead of walk.

Might be something to take into account though, when running a community like OP wants. Sims aren't exactly known for getting which part of a lot is intended for them, so if you have lots of houses spread out they may get up to go wash their plate on the other side of the lot or something like that, and end up losing lots of time going back and forth.

Oh and, iCad. It's okay. We're still slob-buddies.

^And we're still anti-coffee buddies, too.

Me, I'm not down with the teleporting thing. None of my pixels will ever learn how to do it because I say so. I like to keep things semi-realistic, with the human pixels limited only to things that real human beings can do in the real world. The witches can do that Magi-whatever-it-is spell, but even then I only let them do it to get into their Sekkrit Magick Rooms that have no doors. So yeah, huge residential lots are, for me, a pain in the butt. I'll use them for certain community lots, like graveyards for my masses of dead pixels, or for the community lots in commune/monastic neighborhoods, particularly for community farms, or for the big campgrounds I like to build to send pixels on non-BV vacations, but never for residential lots.

@ teafortwo: That sounds similar to how I do things, although not all of a commune's members will have a business in my game. Most of them tend the fields and craft stuff for use by the commune or to sell to generate money for the commune. Money is all shared, though I don't have a banking system per se. Basically, all the money ends up in the leader's hands, and is used to fund the community itself, like for the cost of gardening and crafting and such. And I'll subtract a big chunk when a new residential lot for a group of members is needed. And yes, they live "off the grid," generating their own power with solar panels on a "power plant" lot, which gets additional panels whenever there is enough cash to buy them.

icad (and everyone else reading and posting...) I have built a posh cabin on a small residential lot for the commune banker...a trusted elder. This elder will collect, dispense and invest community income. Each compound will deposit earned income keeping only what is needed to maintain themselves.. (I am using the wallet token.)

Seperate lots are easier for me to manage and by playing on a rotation basis it is possible to really get to know all of my pixel peeps. This keeps the story going and holds my interest over time.

Oh, and because of the skill on all lots mod an education center could be added. (Perhaps...)

Do any of you send any of your "intentional community" SIms to college? How do you manage this? I am thinking of using off campus housing with the requirement that they do not socialize with non-community students. And demanding that they earn several scholarships. (I pretend that some community students attend a private commune run school; some may not be allowed to leave to attend this imaginary school - just depends on what the Leader decides for them.

The thing also with large lots is how can you play 6 families all at the same time? The lead family that I was playing had a birthday party for their twin boys and even there I didn't notice the older toddler girl had been playing outside too long and got a SW pop up about her being too hot. I much prefer each family to be on their own small lot. I removed the road in front of each house and tried to hide road with bushes. But since they are the only sims allowed they constantly walk passed so it feels more like one lot. Two adults, a kid and 3 toddlers was more than enough sims to take care of at once. If I really want a sim over I would use Christianlov's Transporter mirror, but I just waited and the carpenter came on past so I grabbed him and did the barter of wood for tomatoes.
Mine have no money as there isn't any need for it. No bills, no shops, they just barter. No electricity except there own solar power panel which powers the lights, a wood stove for cooking. I should probably require a wood pile for that, so if anything I think wood seems to be the currency. They are all allowed small gardens and ponds so food isn't as important as wood. I did need some money for the extension because I ended up changing the layout of the house a bit. I'm pretending that didn't happen and it was only the extension which was small enough for Chad to do himself. I just family funded them a bit.
No school the parents can teach them skills and certainly no college. If one wants to be the next Dr, the DR will mentor them. But you don't need college for growing crops, fishing, sewing and wood work.

@ Teafortwo:

Interesting question about college for communies. If I were playing one as a stand-alone neighborhood, then I might try out that Uni-in-the-main 'hood mod. From what I've gathered, it might work quite well for the purpose. However, since I run these things as sub-hoods, I would still want to run Uni the regular way, and I'm not sure you can with that mod installed.

Sooooo, what I do is, when a commune kid transitions to teen, they "decide" whether or not they will stay with the commune. Whether or not they will is based on personality, aspiration, LTW, and a bit of randomness. If they will stay with the commune, I imagine they wouldn't be interested in college. I mean, what good would it do if you're just going to stay with the commune way of life and not have a standard job, etc. And why would they want to associate with "outsiders," too, if it's an isolationist sort of commune? (Some of mine are, some of mine aren't.) On the other hand, if they "want" to leave the commune then when the hit independent teenhood (I have Inteen, so that's at 7 days away from adulthood), they leave and move on to whatever their destiny is, be it college or whatever. This way, some of my communies leave, which serves as a bit of population control for the subhood, which is a good thing because they tend to breed. A lot. Well, those that aren't monastic, that is.

iCad, population count is something to keep in mind! I've decided to limit/manage births and adoptions to keep gameplay more relaxed. If a Sim breaks the baby limit they will need to choose a child to put up for adoption (via a cheat object). Infants, toddlers and children given up for adoption end up at the orphanage in the main neighborhood.

Only teens who roll a want to attend university will be given the opportunity to do so and then only if they are destined for a professional career - and meet certain requirements. There is a compound for professionals where men and women have seperate cottages and share a communal area. Professional commune members live a monastic lifestyle and contribute financially to the community along with "doing good deeds".

Yeah, on some communes, ones that I've deemed wackily culty/religious with an obsessive control-freaky leader/object of worship, In those cases, I've done strictly regulated breeding, where only certain pixels with certain venerated traits were allowed to breed and they could only breed a certain number of time. But mostly it's just anything goes, with mostly free-willing going on. That's what this new one I need to set up will be.

I COULD set ACR for few births but...Well, I kind of like the large population. But not TOO large, which is why I'm happy to see some emigrate, too. But a good number of them "choose" to stay because, really, they have a pretty good life. (I'm actually sort of envious of it and have always had leanings toward liking the whole communal living idea. It's part of being a hippie, you see. ) But generally, it's the Fortune Sims who "want" to leave because they'll get the career LTWs, and those always clash with the way I run my communes, which is that they're all self-sufficient and off-grid, with no careers allowed and, usually, little contact with the outside world, except for those who run the market where they sell their excess stuff. (Once they actually have excess stuff, that is. ) Everyone else has a pretty high chance of staying, though. After all, I don't want to flood my main hood or its other sub-hoods too much, either. On the other hand, I've now got a mod that allows any aspiration to have any LTW, so it might not just be Fortune Sims who are mostly likely to leave, once I get the new commune up and running and breeding.

OK, I said I'd post when the Westfall Kingdom apartment was ready for upload, and I just submitted the finished version to the queue not 5 minutes ago, so hopefully it'll be available for your intentional medieval communities in the next few days! (and sorry to those of you who gave me grief about big lots, but yes, it is on a 5x6 lot!) Thanks for inspiring me to work on it more!

Zarathustra -- again, an impressive effort. I would think you'd HAVE to have the largest lot in your case.

I play communes as well. I'm not a fan of large lots because even though my computer can better handle larger lots now, I still prefer medium ones for this purpose. In the past (pre-AL), my commune's founder and his "core" group lived on the main (and largest) lot. As the children grew up, or if townies seem interested in joining, they moved next door and formed their own sub-groups. There was a school (Simlogical) for the kids, and one of the members was the teacher. The founder had gardens where he sold produce in his business. I designated a separate shopping hood for the commune, though members outside the commune could live there as well.

Since I had commune members walking by all the time, I didn't find the separate households an inconvenience. The Christianlov phone that enables you to call anyone at any time or the Simblender worked well, too. Or the Insim summoner. Take your pick.

Yes, I know about the mods that can increase the members of a household, and I have one, but it got kind of unwieldy to me by the time I had 12 members, and I believe my total went up to more than 30 members in total by the time I got rid of the neighborhood, Playing separate households allowed me to form side stories as well. One household was disgruntled with the commune founder, for instance, and was quietly planning to split off into its own commune.

Like ICad, I made the child decide whether he or she wanted to go to Uni, consulting the founder for advice first. Most went. Some didn't. Commune students lived in their own dorms, which were quite popular because thanks to the money that the founder would send them (the business turned out to be profitable), there was usually a bubble blower, a hot tub and/or weed to be shared. Some visitors wanted to join the commune. Professors seemed to like the dorms as well, and the students advanced their grades pretty efficiently as a result. Much .. errrr ... schmoozing going on. One of the professors was actually considering abandoning his job and joining.

With AL, I would think you'd have more possibilities. I should check that out.