I know that quite a few people on here, including me, calculate an "intelligence level" and/or a "motivation level" for sims based on their personality.

(If I recall correctly, I stole the idea from Katya Stevens :-D)

I used to use the following formula to calculate "intelligence":

(Active Points + (1/2 Neat Points)) - Playful Points = "Intelligence Level"

-1 or below = Low Intelligence
-1 - 6 = Average Intelligence
7 or above = High Intelligence

Intelligence level mainly affected how many skill points a sim could gain in each skill without having a want to do so, and it also had an effect on the ability to learn and speed of learning toddler skills and the ability (or lack thereof) to be taught to study. For example, an adult sim of low intelligence could only gain 5 skill points (in any one skill) without a want, an adult sim of average intelligence could gain 7 and an adult sim of high intelligence could gain (all) 10. Having some variety in this made my game more interesting and added variety and difference to my sims.

But it's been bugging me that sims' intelligence is 100% based on their personality points. I want even more more variety! So from now on I will calculate each sim's intelligence level using the above formula, but then there will also be an element of randomness involved. I will use a random number generator to generate a number between 1 - 100, and depending on the calculated intelligence level sims will have a different % chance of having each intelligence level.

So, a calculated-high-intelligence sim will have a 5% chance of being low intelligence, 20% average intelligence and 75% high intelligence.
A calculated-average-intelligence sim will have a 10% chance of being low intelligence, 80% average intelligence and 10% high intelligence.
A calculated-low-intelligence sim will have a 75% chance of being low intelligence, 20% average intelligence and 5% high intelligence.

I hope that this will add more variety to my sims, as it will allow for greater variation in personalities for each intelligence level. I would love to add in an element of genetics/inheritance of intelligence (to be used on top of the randomisation, so not just based on personality points), but I'm not sure how best to do it. Ideas are appreciated! I don't mind if it end up being quite complicated to work out as it's something I'll only ever have to do once for each sim, when they become toddlers/are created/become playable.......

I have also completely stopped using a "motivation level": as I now play a purely wants-based game each sim's motivation level is sort of "built in" to the game's coding - their motivation is shown by the wants/fears that they roll. This means that Fortune and/or Knowledge sims (or Fortune and/or Knowledge secondary sims) are the "most motivated" as they roll the most wants to get jobs, earn money, get promotions and gain skills. Other than requiring sims in certain careers/career levels to have specific qualifications, I don't limit promotions/skill gain at all if a sim has a want to do so.

I was wondering: how do the other simmers who play with intelligence and/or motivation levels calculate them, and why do you do it in that way? I'd like to hear some more ideas before I decide for sure how I want to change the way that I do it :-)

I use that same formula and ranges, but for motivation rather than intelligence. Low motivation sims I don't direct to skill unless they have the want, and I don't lock skill related wants for them (or any want that is going to require what they'd think was work - like getting promotions or high marks). I do lock other wants, such as for dates or to play games - if it suits their personality. Average motivation sims I also only have skill if they have the want for it, but any of their wants can be locked. High motivation sims I can direct to skill or do homework even if they don't have a want for it. Even with that, I'm likely only to direct a highly motivated sim to skill if they have the want, but highly motivated teens will do their homework without their parents standing over them, and some sims might be directed to work towards promotions.

In my game, intelligence is just whether or not I set a sim to smart using batbox. I've got a harder skilling mod in place and skill points take a bit over 4x as long to earn per skill level, and it's nice that at least a few sims earn skill points more easily. I roll dice to determine if a sim is set to smart or not. I know intelligence isn't really tied to motivation, but motivation does affect how focused and effective someone might be while studying, so I use a sim's motivation to determine the chances that a sim is smart. Highly motivated sims have a 1 in 2 chance of being smart (I roll a 6 sided die, and if they roll odd, they are smart). Average sims have a 1 in 4 chance (I roll a 4 sided die, and they are smart if I roll a 1) and low motivation sims have a 1 in 6 chance of being smart (roll a 1 on a 6 sided die).

I've thought about capping skill levels for each intelligence level, but having a cap at a specific level based on intelligence for each skill didn't work for me. Sometimes it was appropriate that my low intelligence sims had a high skill in one or two areas, so I don't have rules on what skill levels they can reach any more. Skill caps and limits on the use of ways to skill build quickly aren't governed by neighbourhood rules but I determine them on a case by case basis for each sim based on how I perceive that sim and their story. If one has a limit or restriction, I jot that down on the paper I have for that sim. I've got some sims that are illiterate and can't use books for skills, and I've got a couple of ROSs related to injuries that would affect the body skill - I'm trying to come up with other things that would impact other skills.

I cannot say anything based on their personality because I have Pescado's wfsanity and with it every my sim wants to learn skills, get money(job) and do other normal things. Well, very lazy and pleasure sims sometimes like to not go to work. But if you want add something what makes more difference in their intellect level, I'd recommend look at their interests. More serious and intellectual interests can indicate more intellectual sim. And someone who likes only fashion, sports and food may be lower intellectual.

I've never thought of doing such a thing! I just look at their behavior and assume they are all somewhere in the range of say, a cardboard box - a bedroom slipper. These are pixels who will walk all around the house to get to most inconvenient bathroom, stopping to whine about needing to go along the way, take their dinner to a plastic chair someone stashed on the third floor of their house rather than sit at the nice, expensive dining room table, and ask each other what that racket is when the baby is screaming two feet away. Not rocket scientists.

I feel that I don't need a formula for that - the more I play with my Sims, the smarter they become

Wow, that's very technical! I just kind of impose my opinion of who is smarter and more motivated like I would an original fictional character. I do base my opinion on some indicators through like hobbies and Aspirations. Like a sim who wants to get a job in the slacker career I might consider less ambitious than one who wants to have 5 top level businesses.

I got the idea of both you and Katya but do it with my own rules.

My formula is neatness+activity-playfulness.
8+ is over achieving
1-7 is average
0 and below is low.

I use to have average as 0-7 but I got way too many average sims so I raised it, I may yet raise it again because I get hardly any low sims. I use motivation levels because I am rather goal orientated and tend to make all sims skill way too much. I don't want all my sims to be smart and college educated.

Low motivation sims only skill if they so choose and are not directed. Having a few items that can be used autonomously (thanks iCad!) has made this a bit more realistic. Highly motivated sims may ask them to join and highly motivated parents may encourage them. These sims will never be set as knowledge or fortune. Their skill set will be set at 5 across all skills unless I feel a specific area should be opened. If they are a sports freak for example I may well open up the body skill or if they keep rolling to make food and gain cooking points I might open up cooking skill. Just because they are low motivation doesn't men they can't have a passion for something and perhaps excel in one area. They just have to convince me first that it's warranted.

Average sims will skill if they roll a want to do so. They can be any aspiration.

Highly motivated sims will skill a lot, will ensure their children learn all skills, encourage children to be better.

From my point of view no matter how high a Sims Intelligence level may be they still are just "plain Idiots" to run into the very mid of a fire and just stand there. Now that being Smart.

Wow, i've never thought about it much. I do have a feel for my Sims personalities, perhaps some more than others though. Like I see Lazlo Curious as very smart...and lazy/unmotivated unless he is very interested in something, like a passion. But again i've never given it much thought. I will have to do that! I do have all my Sims skill too much, I know I do and I need something to stop myself

You forgot to mention the apparently liturgical dance they do while watching the fire.

I find that given the right motivation, even 'stupid' pixels will want to learn something once in a while. It's the laziest ones that are usually the hardest to prod into doing anything, and they're usually underachievers because they've never exceeded their own laziness.

I use the same technique to figure out their intelligence, but if they're too darned playful they're just useless for motivating to learn anything.

Playful people are not low intelligence. Just look at all of us who play the Sims!

The lazy ones don't mind sitting on their butts studying - so they need a career where logic, mechanical and cleaning or cooking points are needed (and a maid). Then they become mad scientists or chiefs of staff. Not that underachieving in my game They also don't mind sitting on their butts to study fire safety, parenting, etc. Active Sims need to be in a career where they can exercise - they don't like sitting down to study.

The slackers - well, they do not mind working ridiculous hours to get to the top of their careers. And they are normally very creative, and creative people (or Sims) are not stupid. They are just not interested in Science

Yet farming, on the other hand, is a science - or agriculture is - so farming Sims have some brain cells too, even though they sometimes learn through their (or my) mistakes in my game.

I never had a problem with a playful Sim (I love them) studying or working hard - just fit in a couple of pillow fights/red hands/playing in the bathtub between study and work sessions and they are fine (One of my soldiers has just adopted a playful kid. I only realised how playful when he started playing with the fridge at a friend's house - he kept it going for some time!)

As for the liturgical dance - you should have seen mine when my neighbours (above me) set their flat on fire a few months ago. Especially when she screamed through my window that I should phone somebody. doing quite a liturgical dance herself.

Did it involve waving at the fire? That's my favorite part of the dance.

Hahahaha - probably I went outside and looked up at what she was waving at - a red glow was filling up her flat. I could not phone the fire brigade, my cell phone's battery was flat.
So I woke up my daughter who was staying over that night - and she phoned, but by that time, the guest house down the street had closed their pubs and a number of drunken (various levels) men stumbled in to help (because - fortunately? - the security gate was broken once again). One of them seemed to know what he was doing - he actually put the fire out. The rest were making noises, some easier to understand than others - and one was happily singing.

The neighbours from the burning apartment are all standing together praying in Venda, which I don't understand - and my daughter kept her head, opened all the windows in my flat, swithced on the air conditioning and took the dog for a walk around the swimming pool, out of the smoke's way. The caretaker woke up and came to see if he could do anything then. And then the fire brigade arrived with two trucks and a helluva lot of noise, waking up everybody else in the complex.

So that fire dancing the Sims do - completely normal

I just don't direct them to skill unless they have a want relating to it. (So "Play marco polo" also allows sims to train body via swimming!)

I don't believe in all of my sims being overachievers. I find by following a combination of free will, hobbies, wants and interests, there is a variety all of its own I also tend to buy toddler toys based on the parents' skills, and not everyone would buy toddler skilling toys.

I play by wants, generally, but which wants I fulfill most depends on what a sim's resources are (obviously if a sim is broke they aren't buying a pool table!) and on how I view their character. Want to be best friends with cheating ex-spouse? Eh, just a bit of nostalgia that'll roll away by morning. Unless, of course, it doesn't, in which case it might be trying to make the custody situation of the kids easier, unless there aren't kids, or it might be based on what a struggle being divorced is for one sim or the other--could just be sympathy: man, she had a really good thing in me, she blew it, look at her now, I feel sorry for her screwing up her life like that, maybe I can still be her friend and give her advice on how to improve herself.

Some sims want to skill more, so they do. Others don't want to, so they don't unless they earn a skill because of some other thing they have going on. Like they want to sing karaoke and get a skill point from doing so. Or they want to get on the dean's list in college so they have to skill to get there.

I don't really see that as intelligence, more as personality preferences. I have some really smart friends who haven't gotten much of anywhere by traditional metrics in life, but hey, if you're happy playing in local bars to get by, and your life looks the way you want, more power to you!

For a second I thought you meant you did something similar to the fire dance! Fortunately I've never been in a house fire, so I don't know for certain what I'd do, but I hope I'd act sensibly. Generally my Sims acted sensibly too. The nearest I've experienced was a fire in our family caravan (trailer to Americans), when I was in my teens. I ran to a neighbour to 'phone for the fire brigade. Which is quite similar to what young Julian Moltke (also a teen) did in my first Sims fire. Only Julian had to run into the burning house to reach the 'phone. But there the similarity ended. While the Scottish fire brigade praised us for acting sensibly, Julian was lectured and fined by the Veronaville fire brigade for allegedly wasting their time. In both cases the fire was out by the time the fire engine arrived. My mother and grandmother had extinguished the fire by throwing buckets of water at it, and pouring a kettle down the chimney. The firemen said we had done well -- they said caravans were usually beyond saving by the time they got there. While Julian was 'phoning, his mum went upstairs to get Hans (then a toddler) who was sleeping in his crib in the room directly above the fire. I don't know what his dad (Martin) did in the kitchen where the fire had broken out, but I know the fire was out when the fire engine arrived. But then, instead of praising Julian for his courage, Dorian Shankel shouted at him and fined him -- at a time when the family was still quite poor. I've always thought it was monstrously unfair. But at least no one died.

Only once did my Sims act stupidly in a fire. Gerry and Glenda McBain, a childlike and adorable pair of teen siblings, kept running into the kitchen to look at the fire, while everyone else in the house kept well away from it. A fire alarm was fitted but on that occasion the fire brigade's response was slower than usual, and it really put the wind up me. Once was enough for me -- I put Squinge's no more fires mod in, and I haven't seen the Sims' fire engine since. I have a real horror of ever watching anyone burn to death, and without mods Sims fires are far more common than in Real Life.

To return to the main subject of this thread, you won't be surprised to hear that I don't use a formula to determine my Sims' intelligence. I know the game uses algorithms to control Sims, but for my part I treat them as "real" characters, so I learn their personalities by getting to know them. And of course, being me, I'd hate to think I was stopping anyone from achieving their full potential, so I generally encourage them to build their skills. Moreover some skill-building can be real fun, like playing chess, or painting. You pretty well have to cook to live, and the house becomes uninhabitable if you never clean it, so even fun-loving Sims build up quite a few skills over time. And, with my aging-off playstyle, time is invariably on their side.

Once the toaster caught fire. I unplugged it and that didn't work. Didn't think that chucking something electrical into the sink was a good idea. I learned to use a fire extinguisher in about ten seconds. After that, I was more worried about how to clean it up than the fact that there'd just been a fire. Sometimes my priorities are a little messed up.

Interestingly enough, I noticed Sims in apartments will run outside and stand by the mailbox rather than do the fire dance. I remember this clearly because of the cooking hobby instructor showing up while my Sim's stove was on fire.

What i'm now starting to do with motivation is just going off how I feel that Sims personality is, sometimes I know right off the bat how I read a particular Sim, sometimes i don't, which is where I would then look at their aspiration (fortune sims would be higher for example), personality (lazy-active and serious-playful, with lazy and playful lowering their motivation but lazy even more so) and their high-ranking interests, if their interests are say politics/environment/culture sort of stuff that'd raise their motivation, if it's say toys/entertainment that'd lower it. I take that all into account though just glancing at it all and make a decision. I'm currently working on going through all my Sims and deciding their motivation levels.

Low motivation Sims will be capped at level 3 in a job, average motivation Sims will be capped at 7 (though I think I have a mod that caps it at level 5 if a Sim does not go to University, so 7 only if they went to Uni), and high motivation Sims would possibly be allowed to max out a career, but I have "harder jobs" mod so there can only be a certain amount of Sims at max level, like 1 mayor only. But if they can't max it as someone else took it there should still be level 8 and 9 available to them I believe.

As for skilling I think high motivation Sims will skill to their hearts content, especially if it will lead to say a better job or something.

Average Sims if they either want it in some way, have a related hobby/passion or for some reason like that, and may get any skill moderately skilled, say around level 5, going higher would be either out of sheer using it, like needing to eat, wanting to skill or wanting something that requires skill like being promoted etc.

Low motivation Sims would only skill if they want it. Even low motivation Sims can have a passion though.

Discrimination against playful Sims is not allowed in my game. Discrimination against any Sim, lazy, slob, neat, active, nice or not - is not allowed. If Sim A wants to be a Hall of Famer and happens to be lazy - well, he will suffer through a number of exercise points and then do yoga and Tai chi to get the rest.. It may take him longer, since he may have his elder birthday before that, but he will not be stopped from trying to reach his dream.

I've always tried to make every Sim reach their dream before and it's gotten boring to me and too easy, making all my Sims become skilling machines and not actual people. I know it's my own fault, and this way will give me more variety and my Sims more personalities. At least I think it will, if I let the Sims lol. That isn't to say I won't still strive to make them happy with their life

Some Sims may be happy never "reaching the top" and may actually dream of just staying at a lower level, like wanting to be an Elementary School teacher for their whole life. In my spreadsheets I keep track of LTW but i'm not going to just use the game LTW's, some I will make up on my own, keep track of and I believe I can cheat to make them perma-plat if I think they should be, if they've achieved their dream I set for them but it wasn't a normal game LTW. Some may never reach perma-plat but still be happy and fulfilled just the same. If they all do end up perma-plat i'll find that boring as well, I need variety and a challenge (it's a challenge to me to make sure not all my Sims end up perma-plat). I think I get bored too easily now...

I hope that makes sense, i'm still trying to wake up. I do want to say I also love how everyone can play differently and in their own style, it's part of what makes the Sims so amazing

They don't have to become skilling machines, really, in order to reach the top of their careers.

If they have gained skills as toddlers, then as children/teenagers/students and then, in my game, a couple more while joining the military for a week, they really don't have to skill all that much.

They are also able to reach perma-plat without reaching the LTW (and I don't want, need or have the mod that stops that).

A lot of skills can be gained while they are having fun anyway.

I have both intelligence scores and motivation scores in some of my hoods, with intelligence limiting the number of skill points sims can have, and motivation determining whther or not I can direct them to skill and how many want slots and locks they have. Intelligence is partly genetic, partly random and partly early environment. It's a bit complicated, but I like the variety it gives! I also didn't like the idea of tying intelligence to personality, which this avoids.

For each sim, I record their original and current intelligence, which is a number between around 0 and 40. When a sim is born I randomly pick the original intelligence of either one parent or an average of both, and use that as the genetic score. I also use a random number generator to pick a number from 1 to 30, and average that with the genetic score. For 10% of babies I ignore the genetic score, so the base score is just the random number- this means that I can occasionally have sims that are very different in intelligence from their families.

I then add 1 point for each skill point gained as a toddler, and add or take away points based on the school grade at the end of childhood. I like the way this makes school more important for children. They also get 6 points if they have the "eureka" aspiration perk.

The intelligence score caps the number of points a sim can gain in each skill, so that a very low number like 5 would only allow a sim to gain 4 points per skill by default, a more average score like 15 would give 6 points per skill, and a sim needs to have at least 35 intelligence points before they can have 10 points per skill. However, I also increase the cap for skills by up to 3 points based on personality, so that a sim who could usually have 6 points per skill would be able to have 9 creativity points if they were 10 playfullness. They can also get up to 2 points for high hobby enthusiasm.

It's probably needlessly complicated, but I've always enjoyed working out these kinds of rules! It also stops me from being tempted to let every sim have max skill points, which I used to do. The way I work out motivation is actually more complicated

I have intelligence levels in my game, but unfortunately I do not believe my system is of much use to lauratje86 as it has only a minor effect on my game and is only vaguely numerical.

I use hobby interests and skills to decide a Sim's relative intelligence levels in various fields of study, before offering a choice of major for them. This is assuming the Sim does not have a clear idea of what subject they want by the end of their freshman year (quite a few do, but plenty don't). I divide the Maxis and custom degrees into faculties (Pure Sciences, Applied Sciences, Social Sciences, Vocational Arts, Expressive Arts, Medicine, Law and Paranormalics) and a Sim is advised by the SimHampton University Careers Service to take a choice within one of those faculties, depending on which they are strongest in:

Pure Sciences (examples: Physics, Geography, Water Mathematics) - Logic, Science. These seem self-explanatory, except perhaps why Water Mathematics is considered a field of study warranting an entire degree at SimHampton University.

Applied Sciences (examples: Economics, Athletics, Maxing Out*) Sports, Games. These hobbies involve using science and maths (mostly respectively) in a practical sense.

Social Sciences (examples: Business Studies, Diplomacy, Indian Gaming**), Cleaning, Fitness - these I admit are random choices...

Vocational Arts (examples: History, , Hunting^) Music & Dance, Cuisine, Cooking - Cuisine and cooking are partly sciences, but are largely artforms and extremely practical.

Expressive Arts (examples: Art, Music, Inspiration) Arts & Crafts, Nature - the most fluctuating intelligence, this degree is assumed to benefit from endless practise at expression.

Medicine (examples: Medicine, Healing, Leechcraft) Mechanical, Body - the least fluctuating intelligence, medicine prizes incremental acquisition of the arts of healing people. The only department not to have an option among the Maxis majors.

Law (examples: Politics, Law Enforcement, Chivalry) - Charisma, Tinkering. Sims have to be able to charm the birds from the trees and "reconfigure" lengthy documents in this faculty.

Paranormalics (examples: Psychology, Witchcraft/Wizardry, Spaceflight^^) - Creativity, Film & Literature. Magic in SimHampton is largely a question of expanding one's mind in an imaginative manner and learning from lots of old records... ...assuming one has the necessary talent. Spaceflight in SimHampton is about 1/3 physics and astronomy, 2/3 magic and psychology. (And psychology is in this faculty because this is where all the cool brain-imaging equipment is located... ...when other departments aren't borrowing them).

* - Maxing Out is degree aimed at earning every skill point before the end of university. The department motto is "Good luck".

** - Indian Gaming is a degree about traditional games. The department motto is "Good luck wins".

^ - The Hunting department motto is "Good luck ever be in your favour... ...odds... ...um, must dash, the venison has roasted".

^^ - The Spaceflight department motto is "If you need good luck... ...don't even bother entering". It might be at least 1/2 magic, but they really want to be 1/1 science!

If there is a tie between two faculties, the Sim ignores all this advice and continues as they are, with automatic major selection ensuing if they are still undeclared by the end of sophomore year. This also applies to any Sim who I think would look at the faculty's offerings and go "yuck!". I don't alter their success probabilities at all for doing this - I assume their decisions give them the motivation to make up for their inherent lack of major-relevant intelligence. (Also, it's more calculating than I can be bothered to do, given the amount of time Sims get per semester is already GPA-affected).

In my model of intelligence levels, I see intelligence as how well and quickly a Sim can understand part of a field that isn't basic, part of their routine experience or something they can learn by doing. This explains its limited use in my game. This also explains how I have had Sims able to study complicated subjects and still attempt to eat lightning fires (with the apparent motive of "it seemed like a good idea at the time") and burn water. After all, everyone can have a stupid moment, no matter how intelligent they are!