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MTS Movie Night #2 - posted on 10th Aug 2017 at 2:58 PM
Replies: 30 (Who?), Viewed: 12092 times.
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Modlet Minder
staff: administrator
Original Poster
#1 Old 12th Feb 2017 at 4:44 PM
Default Changes to our credits guidelines
Hello simmers! Over the past little while we moderators have been increasingly aware that our guidelines for crediting resources used in creations have been in need of an overhaul. The old guidelines didn't spell out our requirements very clearly and left a lot of room for interpretation, but also didn't allow leeway for circumstances where credits could not be located, which on occasion led to confusion with moderation. So, to this end we are rolling out a brand new policy for resource credits! We're hoping that the new guidelines will be much easier to follow, more helpful, and more fair to both those who create resources and those who use them. All future uploads will be expected to follow the new policies; it does not apply to things uploaded before now. This also does not apply to custom content credits, only to resources used in the creation of sims custom content. The new guidelines can be found here.

Happy creating!

The meadows are in bloom:
who has ever seen such insolence?

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#2 Old 19th Feb 2017 at 8:49 PM Last edited by ScaryRob : 4th Apr 2017 at 8:49 AM.
Since I can't reply to your linked-to thread, let me reply here.

At the top of your linked-to thread, you give three reasons why resources should be credited. The first two are valid reasons for doing so:

It's nice! People who make all of these awesome resources are giving away great stuff for free. Providing them with a proper name credit and link is just the polite thing to do.
It helps other Sim creators find resources to use in their own creations


The third is not:

It helps MTS moderators double check that the resource creators are okay with their stuff being shared and remixed

This is not a valid reason for giving credits, simply because third-party creators of anything related to any of the Sims games do not have any legal copyright ownership of their creations.

The only entity that has any rights to anything created for any of the Sims games is Electronic Arts - period.

I don't know why the so-called "Sims Community", of all the many computer gamers in the world, have such a hard time understanding this. Well, actually I do know, but I won't here go into the political, social and personality issues that are involved.

The Sims games are no different in their legalese than any of the other myriads of computer games I've played over the past 30+ years, wherein the developer/publisher retains all rights for anything created for their games.

Simply put, anyone that creates anything for any of the sims games and uploads it to the internet has no legal control whatsoever in how others use their creation.

While it makes sense to "require" that credits be given as much as possible, for the two valid reasons given above, you folks need to stop pretending that you own any of this stuff, because you don't. Only Electronic Arts has any legal rights to anything created for any of the Sims games and therefore no third-party creator or website can prevent another user from using their creation in any way they see fit, or to use it without giving credit.
Alchemist
#3 Old 19th Feb 2017 at 9:08 PM
They can prohibit the use of this site unless people follow the rules and guidelines listed here however, because while MTS may not have any legal control over the EA content that passes through it, it absolutely has control over the site itself. It is absolutely appropriate then, for MTS to set requirements on the use of the site, and to prohibit violations. If someone disagrees, they are welcome to use a different site (so long as, as you observe, they still follow the requirements of EA itself), but for those who choose to use MTS, they are consciously subjecting themselves to the rules of BOTH EA and MTS.

Essentially, MTS gets to set its own rules for its own site, just like any other website does.

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Moderator
staff: moderator
#4 Old 19th Feb 2017 at 9:18 PM
....AND..

You're forgetting (or pretending you don't know) that there are resources available that have nothing to do with The Sims or EA and the creators of those resources are well within their rights to say what can/can't be done with their resources. So yes, we "require" those credits (and links) so we can be sure that the uploader hasn't violated anyone's copyright, intellectual property rights.. etc. (This applies to EA too.. they can remove content that violates copyright, intellectual property rights, etc.)

And yes, that does include resources created by another sims creator. Not because EA doesn't own the rights to anything created for the games - because you're right, they do. And the moment you make something you've created available for download, you've given up any rights to it. It's because it's the *nice* thing to do and it's been that way here for forever.
Alchemist
#5 Old 19th Feb 2017 at 10:38 PM
I find it amusing that someone disagrees with the idea that a private website gets to set their own TOU...

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Moderator
staff: moderator
#6 Old 19th Feb 2017 at 10:44 PM
(Very weird.. Zarathustra's reply above mine wasn't there when I posted, nor when I popped back into this thread sometime after I replied..)
Turquoise Dragon
staff: moderator
#7 Old 19th Feb 2017 at 11:03 PM
@mustluvcatz is right. We not only have to doublecheck sims related content, we have to check on things such as textures and pictures as well. Use a wood grain in your upload? Guess what we need a credit... Use a fabric texture? We need a credit. Use an actual picture for a painting? We need a credit there too. Making a bag of cheese with Kraft on it? Guess what we need that image link...
Needs Coffee
staff: moderator
#8 Old 19th Feb 2017 at 11:03 PM
ScaryRob, you misunderstood. It has nothing to do with sims or EA. What we are referring to is this. An artist draws an original design and puts it up on their site to either show as a portfolio or to sell. They state on their site that you may buy the image or do not use it at all. This art work has nothing to do with sim or EA its owned by that artist. That is what the credit is for, so we can check that an artists work isn't being taken and used here.

"I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives." - Unknown
~Call me Jo~
Moderator
staff: moderator
#9 Old 19th Feb 2017 at 11:36 PM
But.. we *do* respect a Sims creator's TOU too - if they say "no", then you can't use it in anything you upload here. If they say you need to ask first? Then you need to ask, if they say "yes", then you can. It doesn't matter if creators own their stuff or not. We also don't allow just any old "this is from 'this EP' and I converted it" upload either - so we also respect EA's terms of use too. (That's not to say it's not allowed at all, it just depends on what the upload is.)
Mad Poster
#10 Old 21st Feb 2017 at 11:25 PM
I am one of them who clicked Agree on your post @ScaryRob. While I agree with you on most of it, I think that there is something to see as well. MTS is responsible whatever happens here. *I* would personally don't throw a fit if someone uses my stuff, but this is just me. Now imagine the trouble and bad reputation MTS could have, if they allow something on their site, that violates somebody else's right?..And what if that person is not me? MTS team has not a lot of options..or even a choice here. They must make sure they aren't allowing some kind of chaos scenario to happen.
This is my own sharing policy :
My sharing policy is quite simple..once in your game, it is yours.
Do with it, whatever pleases you !

Rosie :0)

See..I am not a threat. though most others could be!

Question of my own now, if I may.
I've always used textures from real picture fabric swatches, say..Fabric.com site., to make dresses, table clothes and whatnot. Would I need to credit?
Otherwise, I will find real clothe picture, such as magazines of said clothing store that is advertising their *sales* online. If I remember correctly, Gap was one I used.
For wood texture, always went with Home depot, or other hardware store we have here in Québec, again same deal, picture swatches.
So if ever i decide to upload on here...how do I go about these?
Thank you.

Je mange des girafes et je parle aussi français !...surtout :0)
Modlet Minder
staff: administrator
Original Poster
#11 Old 22nd Feb 2017 at 12:17 AM
Hi @Rosebine

To answer your questions as best I can. Yes, we would like to see credits for textures including things like fabric swatches and wood textures. When uploading items from websites which you know the sources for, the biggest thing to keep in mind is the site's Terms of Use. So basically, make sure there's no text on the page which says you can't use the image(s).

If you're using images taken from things like magazines, catalogues or other print media, please just try to give a credit something like "Texture from GAP print catalogue".

Just from the way the last question about wood textures is phrased, I can't quite tell if you mean that you physically go to the stores and take pictures of their products, or if you just use pictures from their website. If you have taken the pictures yourself, then you are the owner of those pictures and can list the credit as "Based on a picture I took" or something similar. If you're using images from their website, the same thing applies as above - you need to make sure that the page doesn't forbid you from using the images.

One of my biggest recommendations is for future creations which you might upload, try looking for your textures on websites which specialize in offering free textures. Googling "free textures" or "free [wood,fabric,etc] textures" can turn up lots of great stuff, and I find it easier than trying to double check what the Terms of Use are for commercial websites. I hope this answers things for you. If not feel free to @ me and we'll work stuff out.

The meadows are in bloom:
who has ever seen such insolence?

simblr
Mad Poster
#12 Old 22nd Feb 2017 at 12:35 AM
Thank you very much for the precision. Very useful info.

Je mange des girafes et je parle aussi français !...surtout :0)
One horse disagreer of the Apocalypse
#13 Old 22nd Feb 2017 at 8:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScaryRob
The third is not:

It helps MTS moderators double check that the resource creators are okay with their stuff being shared and remixed

This is not a valid reason for giving credits simple because third-party creators of anything related to any of the Sims games do not have any legal copyright ownership of their creations.


There are community etiquettes which have nothing to do with law and everything to do with showing respect for each other as creators.

"You can do refraction by raymarching through the depth buffer" (c. Reddeyfish 2017)
dodgy builder
#14 Old 22nd Feb 2017 at 9:33 AM
We have had this discussion so many times. Unless it's been tested in the court in my country I'm going to say whatever I make belongs ti me. The fact that they have been doing this for 30 years doesn't mean it's legal.

As been said before, since some people can't just stay off this discussion, to avoid any serious conflict with in the community, it's polite to ask.
Née whiterider
staff: administrator
#15 Old 22nd Feb 2017 at 11:47 AM
If people need wood textures, I'd strongly recommend Wood Workshop, which you can use to make your own textures which you have the rights over.

What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact.
Top Secret Researcher
#16 Old 22nd Feb 2017 at 12:33 PM
Thank you for clarifying things a bit more. I've been guilty in the past, through sheer ignorance, of not crediting the images I've used in my creations. My bad!

Thank you for the link to Wood Workshop, I've never seen that before!

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Modlet Minder
staff: administrator
Original Poster
#17 Old 22nd Feb 2017 at 4:27 PM
Also everyone - the staff are in the process of compiling a list of sites which offer free resources, which we will be sharing with you soon. Obviously we can't include every site on the internet, but we hope it will help everyone find more awesome textures and images! Stay tuned, I may make another news post to let you all know when it goes public.

The meadows are in bloom:
who has ever seen such insolence?

simblr
Modlet Minder
staff: administrator
Original Poster
#18 Old 22nd Feb 2017 at 6:14 PM
Alrighty, we've got the beginnings of our public resource sources list going! It's right below the new Credits Guidelines, so you can find it easily. But just in case, here's a link.

The meadows are in bloom:
who has ever seen such insolence?

simblr
Test Subject
#19 Old 22nd Feb 2017 at 11:33 PM Last edited by KatrinaBrinckman : 23rd Feb 2017 at 1:47 AM.
I have a quick question. I am working on some walls and I got the colors from the Sherwin-Williams web site. 1/2 are from HGTV Home Collection the other half are coordinating colors that I also got also from the site. The site lists the HEX number for each color. Do I need to contact them to ask them for permission?
Modlet Minder
staff: administrator
Original Poster
#20 Old 23rd Feb 2017 at 3:02 PM
@KatrinaBrinckman - Just for colours? Nah. I mean yes, in some cases corporations have trademarked colours, but in this case I would say no you don't need to credit. I mean honestly, if paint companies have time to run around hunting down everyone who uses #8adac8 in any sort of design, I think society is pretty much doomed and we should all just give up and revert to Mad Max style anarchy. At that point we'll have bigger things to worry about than resource credits.

The meadows are in bloom:
who has ever seen such insolence?

simblr
Lab Assistant
#21 Old 24th Feb 2017 at 12:05 PM
I am not sure about using content I find here on Modthesims. When I find something I like I usually check if someone allows to add
their objects to houses or if I need to link back instead and people have to download the CC themselved. What if a creator has no
information about this anywhere? Does that mean it is okay to use the CC in my houses and I just need to credit the source?
Some creators have a note somewhere that says not to include their work. So can I include it if a creator has no other rules for it?
I just want to be sure before I add something and get in trouble.

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn
Modlet Minder
staff: administrator
Original Poster
#22 Old 24th Feb 2017 at 6:45 PM
@Beltanefire - The policies I mentioned above only to resources used in the creation of Sims content, not to sims content itself like objects. However, to answer your question: If creators don't have any policies at all, or doesn't have anything that forbids including content with lots, we would consider that a sign that the creator is fine with their content being included. In that case you would still need to include a full link and credit.

If the creator has said "don't include my work", that suggests that they don't want their work included in lots, in which case you should make sure that their files are not included in your uploads. You can still use that content while building your lot, but make sure that the content does not get included in your uploaded file (the ways to check this vary by game, see our Creator Guidelines for details). If you do use this content in a lot, it will also need a full credit and link, so people can download it.

The meadows are in bloom:
who has ever seen such insolence?

simblr
Test Subject
#23 Old 27th Feb 2017 at 12:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScaryRob

This is not a valid reason for giving credits simple because third-party creators of anything related to any of the Sims games do not have any legal copyright ownership of their creations.

The only entity that has any rights to anything created for any of the Sims games is Electronic Arts - period.

I don't know why the so-called "Sims Community", of all the many computer gamers in the world, have such a hard time understanding this. Well, actually I do know, but I won't here go into the political, social and personality issues that are involved.

The Sims games are no different in their legalese than any of the other myriads of computer games I've played over the past 30+ years, wherein the developer/publisher retains all rights for anything created for their games.

Simply put, anyone that creates anything for any of the sims games and uploads it to the internet has no legal control whatsoever in how others use their creation.

While it makes sense to "require" that credits be given as much as possible, for the two valid reasons given above, you folks need to stop pretending that you own any of this stuff, because you don't. Only Electronic Arts has any legal rights to anything created for any of the Sims games and therefore no third-party creator or website can prevent another user from using their creation in any way they see fit, or to use it without giving credit.


I assume that you're thinking of this language:

Quote:
Originally Posted by EULA.rtf
iv. In exchange for the right to use content contributed by other users through the Software, when you contribute content through the Software, you expressly grant to other users of the Software the non-exclusive, perpetual, transferable, worldwide, irrevocable right to access and use, copy, modify, display, perform, and create and distribute derivative works from, your contributed content in connection with the Software, and to distribute and otherwise communicate your contributed content as a component of works that they create using the Software, for example, The Sims lots or The Sims videos, without further notice, attribution or compensation to you. You hereby waive any moral rights of paternity, publication, reputation, or attribution under applicable law with respect to EA’s and other players’ use and enjoyment of such content contributions in connection with the Software.


In the copy I installed from Origin on macOS, this language is found in section 1.I.iv of EULA.rtf. It says that you grant rights to other users "when you contribute content through the Software". In other words, when you upload your creation to EA using the game launcher or an EA website. EA doesn't claim any authority over your creation just because it can be used with EA's game; only when you voluntarily give your creation to EA to distribute.

If I'm mistaken and there's some other agreement that gives EA broader rights to content on third-party sites like MTS, please do the community a favor and quote the specific provisions that apply to us. Until I see something more specific than "every game has legalese that does this", I will continue to assume that MTS authors hold copyright in the files that they publish here, just as they would if they published blog posts on Tumblr or images on DeviantArt.
Mad Poster
#24 Old 27th Feb 2017 at 4:58 PM
Looking at a tutorial about Normal map, This site came up : http://www.textures.com/
This is all free to use textures. Maybe you'll find this useful enough, to add to your list of sites!
Now in MY own favorites.

Je mange des girafes et je parle aussi français !...surtout :0)
Lab Assistant
#25 Old 28th Feb 2017 at 1:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScaryRob
Since I can't reply to your linked-to thread, let me reply here.

At the top of your linked-to thread, you give three reasons why resources should be credited. The first two are valid reasons for doing so:

It's nice! People who make all of these awesome resources are giving away great stuff for free. Providing them with a proper name credit and link is just the polite thing to do.
It helps other Sim creators find resources to use in their own creations


The third is not:

It helps MTS moderators double check that the resource creators are okay with their stuff being shared and remixed

This is not a valid reason for giving credits simple because third-party creators of anything related to any of the Sims games do not have any legal copyright ownership of their creations.

The only entity that has any rights to anything created for any of the Sims games is Electronic Arts - period.

I don't know why the so-called "Sims Community", of all the many computer gamers in the world, have such a hard time understanding this. Well, actually I do know, but I won't here go into the political, social and personality issues that are involved.

The Sims games are no different in their legalese than any of the other myriads of computer games I've played over the past 30+ years, wherein the developer/publisher retains all rights for anything created for their games.

Simply put, anyone that creates anything for any of the sims games and uploads it to the internet has no legal control whatsoever in how others use their creation.

While it makes sense to "require" that credits be given as much as possible, for the two valid reasons given above, you folks need to stop pretending that you own any of this stuff, because you don't. Only Electronic Arts has any legal rights to anything created for any of the Sims games and therefore no third-party creator or website can prevent another user from using their creation in any way they see fit, or to use it without giving credit.

I'm no lawyer, but I'm pretty sure there's some gray area when it comes to rights. Say I write some text that I then add into the game as part of a feature, using EA's systems. The text is my intellectual property, but anything that involves use of EA's code (for example) is absolutely their property. In most cases, mods are just taking EA's code structure and copying it / altering it in small ways, so again, obviously EA's property. If someone creates a completely original graphic or texture, again, their intellectual property, but the implementation of it in the game makes the mod (not the graphic) partially EA's, due to the code involved in putting it in the game.

The reality is, EA, like all companies, have that kind of stuff to protect their work from being reproduced and sold for profit under a different name. Creations that are free are hardly going to be on their radar in a legal sense, unless it's a big enough situation that they feel the use of their work is hurting their sales or brand in some way (ex: things like with Blizzard and private WoW servers, where you could argue that said servers are hurting the real servers' population or profits by existing).

And like EA, it's important that other creators protect their work. Not all creations have the same legal rights that EA does (though in some they do, ex: if an artist is just having their work plain stolen to be placed in a mod by someone else), but your average creator isn't going to be able to afford trying to take someone to court over it anyway. MTS may have some actual legal motivations here, I'm not 100% sure on that, but part of the point of stuff like this is, etiquette as someone else put it, and giving people proper credit for the work they have done. Which is really where intellectual property laws come from in the first place. The only real difference with mod communities, is we have to do some self-policing because it's largely beyond the scope of the courts in whatever country you live in. But the spirit of it is exactly the same, so arguing over whether someone strictly owns what they make in every case of a mod is beside the point. The point is that they put in the work and should be getting the proper credit for it (as opposed to someone taking credit for work that someone else did).

It's really that simple at its core and when I see people arguing otherwise, I can't help wondering if they are just trying to justify using others' work without giving credit. Giving credit can be a pain to do sometimes, writing all the details down and so on and so forth, but just because you can't see the person on the other part of the ether whose work is being used without proper credit doesn't mean they aren't going to be affected by it. I can tell you I've witnessed it firsthand from someone I know (not to do with modding specifically) who had their work posted on a shady website without their consent. The person in question who had it happen to them... there was a deep upset there. It's hard to put into words how it can feel.

And yes, I realize you mentioned the other two reasons being ok, but when someone starts justifying the legality of something, it sounds like trying to justify doing it.

My released mods on MTS | Known as Triplis on the sims forums
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