Religion is a hot button issue only if you make it so. I can understand that you personally don't want it in the game for whatever reason, but saying that you don't want simply because it will make the rest of the people angry and unconfortable is BS. Also, nobody suggested adding any of the real life religions into the game, but a way that gave the sims the chance to be interested in spirtitual matters. I really don't understand how that would offend you or anyone? That's like saying religious people, buildings, and holy books in real life offend you because they exist.

In The Sims 3, survivors can hold a party labeled a funeral after a Sim's death. (I stopped playing the game 3 weeks ago, so I don't know if funerals come with any special actions or benefits.)

There are very few neutral representations of ceremonial officiants and locale. What is the officiant's gender? How would s/he be dressed? What gestures would be included as part of the ritual? Is the locale a building or an open space? What is the architecture of the building? Is there an altar?

Personally, I am very happy with the level of spiritual observance I have been able to incorporate into TS2 through the use of custom content. The inability to do so currently is TS3 is no different from complaints about lack of custom hair. It will come with time, from modders, as an opt-in addition to the game.

Your ability to continually put out these levels of logical fallacies never fails to astound me.

Well, it's not as if the Judeo-Christian God hasn't committed similar acts. Whether God is good or bad in the game is entirely up to you.

Several people in this thread have already answered this. Whether you want to believe it or not, the world at large finds religion a subject for which to kill, maim, bleed and die. Staying away from it is probably just as smart for EA as it is for them to stay away from anything that pushes them over the T rating.

Let's try this, then: I like adult objects in my game, with adult animations and adult themes. I sometimes even tell adult stories. It would be awesome if EA released an expansion based on that because, let's face it, in the real world, sex happens all the time. Why would it offend you if they did this (understanding their rating would change, of course)? If it offends you, a lot of what's happening on tv and in print media must offend you because it exists.

The above is called hyperbole. I never said religion "offended" me. In fact, you're making a judgment without knowing anything more than I don't want it in my game; I could sing in my church choir, tithe weekly and teach Sunday school and because I don't want to play with religion in my Sims, that makes religion "offensive" to me.

*facepalm*

Are you kidding? You know, race is a hot button issue only because we make it so. Maybe we should put stereotypes in the game and see who gets offended...

Perhaps you should just stop, because if you don't understand WHY it would offend people, then I really don't think you have much say...(no offense)

I'll only accept religion into my game ONLY if we can have Jehova's Witnesses knocking on our Sims doors constantly. Seriously.

No, no, just no. The TS2 gypsy, welcome wagon, and professors (who all seem to insist on harassing my sims and waking up any vampires in the household) were all bad enough.

I would buy that expansion for sure!

I can see it now, The Sims 3 Viva Las Vegas expansion pack.

Now that you mention it I feel really stupid, I'll go cry in a corner while you recover from the astounding factor.




The world at large is quite an exageration. People in my country don't kill and maim one another on account of religion. And just because you brought it up, I would like the adult themed expansion. I have no idea why you would assume I would be offended. Sex happens in the real world just as much as religion, both can be pleasant or unpleasant, depends on the circumstances. As for you teaching Sunday school I think you must be a very bad teacher as you don't realy seem to understand religion and spirituality. All you really think about is that it is bad and that it should not be discussed.





Race is a hot issue in America, not so much in the rest of the world. The game is already full of stereotypes, like you need to butter up the headmaster to get your kid into private school or peanut butter and jelly (nobody eats that except americans). Also, please debate your viewpoint and enlighten me why would people get offended.

And only if we can "Invite inside", "Berate extensively" and "Convert to Spode's Will". (Or whatever Spode's religion would be called. If we've got real religions going on, Spode should also be there. Along with Jedi)



They do offend me somewhat because they exist. I study Religion to know it better so that if someone tells me that I don't understand it and that THAT is why I don't like it, I can tell them that yes, yes I do.
However, what Religion does to people, what Religion does to the world insults me very much. It insults me because humans created something that I hate so much, and that I am a human disgusts me because of this.

So your logic is highly flawed in this. Of course, religious PEOPLE existing (not like Jesus. I'm talking about those who partake of Religion) does not offend me. I find them to be ignorant.
Apart from a few rare religions, I find that most are ignorant, and ignorance disgusts me very much.

My point: Don't assume (that religions don't offend people by existing).

Tl;dr? Religion offends me to a point because it exists.

EDIT:

Good work. I post my post, and as I return, what do I find but an assumption?
An assumption about someone's understanding of religion and spirituality, no less. I would clap, only I have much better things to go be sarcastic about.

I think the length and tone of this tread so far (civil although heated)
Is proof enough why it's a bad idea to use religion in a game where it's not a nessesity or part of a bigger structure. i.e. the affore mentioned link to politics.

Religion in games or any other form of popular media will always cause controversy. Someone, somewhere, will always feel offended. Wether or not that feeling is justified is not up for disscussion.

Even WoW where the religions are made up purely for the canon of the game, has had heated discussions on it's message board dealing with the matter.

It's good to know that you study religion even though you hate it passionately and that you have found the truth about the their ignorance. Few people can do that. Maybe you'd care to share with us the names of those few rare religions that are not ignorant and that don't disgust you. We could help EA to see what features could be put in a possible spiritual expansion that would not offend or disgust you.
nn. flawed logic must be the words of the day. First you tell me I have flawed logic then you agree with me on the same point you tell me that my logic is flawed. Why?




So, it's all right for you to assume that all religious people (except those that follow the non ingnorant religions, of course) are ignorant, and we cannot make fair assuptions about what other posters have stated on this thread?

I agree religion of any form should be left out of an official release. I also agree that CC is the way for those who do wish to have religious content in their game to go.

Do they argue about it, though? Are there protests and discussions and religiously-mandated change in government? Do religious groups vie for power and influence? Does religion pay a major part in how people live their day-to-day lives? Does religion sometimes cause friction between different religious groups?

Any of that rather proves what I was saying: religion is an issue that is divisive.



I was trying to point out that you were using hyperbole to make your point. It's fine to want something. It's better to be realistic about what you want, though. That is where we're differing. You seem to want something and can't understand why you can't just have it. Even if I wanted it, I recognize that getting it will probably come from an alternative source like modders and hackers rather than EAxis.



I...wow. Thank you for putting words in my mouth and making a personal attack. I didn't say we couldn't discuss it. If I had, that would be rather silly as I'm discussing it right now. I try not to be a hypocrite if I can help it. As for not understanding spirituality and religion, I get the impression that unless I agreed with you completely, I would never "understand". Again, I didn't say no one could have religion in their game, I said I didn't want it and understood that it would probably not be something EA will give us officially. If they do, hey, I'll eat my words. I won't hold my breath until then, though.



Race is a hot-button issue in South Africa, in the Middle East (complicated by religion), in the remnants of the Russian states (again complicated by religion)... I'm sure the list continues, but I honestly can only cite those three definitively. It's very naive to think the world's problems only exist in big, bad America. Also, "peanut butter and jelly (nobody eats that except americans)"...yikes. Just...yikes.

Perhaps you just want a rousing debate and I'm happy to give it you. However, if all we're going to do is go around in circles with you refusing to understand or even try to meet someone halfway, I don't want to do that. However, it does make my (and others in this thread's) point.

I think that Eaxis would have the hard time putting all of the religions into this game. I mean, there are Catholics against Pagans, Atheists against Christians, Christians against Satanists and vice versa. Plus, it would be nice if we have religion in the game but that would cause controversy just like drugs and alcohol and sex. Maybe if we have shamans on the game, then they either drum or use drugs to experience spirituality. However, some people would be offended by that, period.

I want the Sims to have abortions in the TS3 but we have to fix how we mod first. I rather see that in the game than some fundie banging on the window, yelling, "Tarne narr farg!" (Meaning Abortion is murder!), even in the hospital window. I just don't want this thread to go about abortion being murder of a bunch of cells.

But still, EA is too scared to put abortion in it because of the moral dilemmas associated with it.

Instead of letting EA do the job, about we create our own religion services and churches for the Sims 3 for people with the same likes instead of complaining how much religion is retarded due to the wars and what not? That way if you don't want religion in your game, that's your choice.

I'm sorry? Why are atheists only "against" Christians? Atheists disbelieve in every religion's god or gods and not just those of Christianity. There are ex-Muslim atheist, ex-Hindu atheists and even atheists who have never belonged to any religion at all.

Crocbaura - Maybe if you could try and prove your point without personally attacking the person who you argue against, people would listen to you better. You are just being an ass.

A sunday school teacher doesn't know anything about religion? What the ****? You let your own arrogance blind you. One thing I learned going through university is that all young people deny that there is a God and are speculative about religion. However when they hit 60 they suddenly become religious. Or when they get a bad cold, for that matter. Why? Most people turn to religion because they are simply afraid of dying, not because they truely believe in that particular faith.

While a sunday school teacher might not be able to, in some cases, logically think about religion and apply their studies to reality, they certainly know their religion.

Finally, American's are not the only people who play Sims. If you believe that I just lost all my respect for you having some sort of a working brain. People play from all over the world, where there are indeed religion issues.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now back to the discussion, if any one here thinks they can market a game with religion in it, by all means, try. If you can, you probably found some ingenius way of generalizing all religions. This would make you a world wide hero. You just CAN'T make people happy with religion because some many of their idealogies conflict.

To make it more simple and realistic:

Christianity is a large religion, so is Jewish.

They get put in the Sims and a war on the forums is sure to start. About what? Christians believe Jesus was the son of God and a moralistic teacher. Jews believe that he was a fake prophet with some nice stories, and that the son of God is coming. These two religions will always conflict, and since they are the larger ones, you can't not include them in a game with religion. Unless the game is based on a certain area.

So I guess what I'm saying is that it can be done if you implement somewhere around 3 religions, but not without critics tearing EA to pieces and them loosing a whole wad of money. That of which they are very interested in.

Of course, they're against all religions. They think that religions have to deal with war and pain and that to only ban religion would make things more simple.

There is the south park show that shows Cartman traveling to the future in which no one believes in a god, only Science. They think that all religions of the past are futile fantasies based on fallacies of logic.

1. You can't speak for all atheists since the only thing all atheists have in common is a lack of belief in a supernatural deity.
2. Religions are based completely unsubstantiated claims.
3. I am not against religion because it is religion. I am against religion because it propagates untruths and causes people to stop questioning things and seeking the truth - or, rather, questioning things and accepting an already agreed upon "truth" within the context of the particular religion's holy book. Without evidence a claim is worthless.

So If I reject my religion, would that make me smarter?

If religion is banned, would people be smarter without the untruths?

No, of course it wouldn't make you more intelligent. It'd make you a bit more sensible, though, depending on the reasons for your disbelief. If you come to an understanding through looking at the facts then that suggests you're able to reason decently, I guess, but as far as intelligence goes you're stuck with what you've got.

Did I even suggest banning religion? And did I say that rejecting religion made anyone more intelligent?

(No, I didn't. Stop writing words into my posts that aren't there.)

Anyone who wishes to debate the value of religion in society may start a thread in the Debate Room. Posts in this thread need to focus on how adding religious elements would affect the Sims franchise, whether through gameplay or consumer response.

So, Clarice, I'm more sensible for rejecting my religion? I think you may want to read your posts and review them, your point is not becoming very clear.

I've got a few questions for you.

1) How would it make me more "sensible" if I rejected my religion?

2) What facts am I suppossed to be understanding of?

3) Finally, your very speculative of religion and believe that all the facts are a bunch of bull shit because they were written 2,000 years ago. A time which we didn't have cameras to tape people performing miracles of sorts that have been recorded. When you hit 70, will you still be so opposed to religion?


If you answer "No" to the third one you fall in to where 80% of people fall in to when they become elderly. If you answer "Yes" you are either young and have no health problems or haven't reached the point in your life where death is iminent. Which if you think about it, death is always close by. Either that or you are a believer in evolution, that of which I am. I was raised around a Christian family, but rejected it's theologies because all the facts in the Bible seemed so ridiculous. What, your telling me a guy actually walked on water? Are you kidding me? That's what I thought. Evolution seemed to be a perfect fit for my beliefs.

However when I entered Univesity and listened to a few people ramble on about religions my view changed. Currently I'm studying several religions in my spare time so I can sharpen my beliefs. I probably won't come up with an answer.


BUT this is going in the wrong direction. Were supposed to be answering the question of why there is not religion in the sims, not argue about how your "insensible" if you believe in a religion or more "understanding". Can we stick more to the origional post? I mean we can always argue about this in another thread.

First of all, racism is a HUGE issue with the whole world. It's extremely naive for you to say it isn't. America is actually on really good terms when it comes to racism. I've been to Brazil many a time, and racism still applies there. In Europe, many regions have people who have never seen a black man before. I know some people from Ukraine who tells me how racist they are. Watch a soccer game in Europe. If there is a black man playing, they all make monkey noises and throw bananas at him. So yeah, racism is a huge issue still.

But that is a beside the point. And those aren't the kind of stereotypes I'm talking about, crocobaura.

Imagine The Sims making a version of the Muslim religion in the game. The sims would have a holy book and pray 5 times a day towards "Llama Mecca", while praying they would chant Simlish, most likely in a comical fashion. You don't think anyone would be offended by that? Someone who takes it very seriously. Someone who's tradition it's been for years and years, having the game mock their religion.

Or perhaps a Llama on a Crucifix? Sim priests dress in robes covered in Llamas worshiping Llamas. I'm pretty sure the Christian religion would be up in arms about it. I mean, we are about everything else.

Sims would talk about religion with each other, and they'd end up arguing. After all, that's what would happen in real life. It's happening on this thread right now. Sims would probably try to convert other Sims if their relationship is high enough.

Oh wait, we can have one Sim religion. Okay, which one should we adapt? Because you know that the game will be criticized for choosing just one when much of the world thinks otherwise. But if you put more than one in, many religions will not be represented and the ones that are will be misrepresented.

I don't know if you realize the concept of The Sims, but YOU play God. In essence, The Sims is like an ideal world where Sims don't discuss their beliefs or don't push it unto others. They just live their lives, like WE'RE supposed to.

I'm a Christian, but I have many Atheist friends. I've also been friends with Muslims, Hindus, Jews, Agnostics, Singhs, and a friend who leaned towards Bhuddism. We never pushed our beliefs. We sometimes learned from others, but it was not a main part of our conversations. THAT is the way it should be.