There is no sides to take... this isn't a debate about which one is better... it's just commenting on how they could have made a better game had they stuck to what was already selling well and just improved it... instead they made a huge leap away from the game. Hell looking at Steam right now... Sims 3 is still $399.80 (This price does NOT include Store items). I just think they jumped away from the Sims game and into what honestly feels like a browser game at this point. NOW STUDYING HANDINESS - 48hrs until complete It's basically Sims Social 2 and not really appropriate to name it Sims 4. Just expressing some confusion about the direction EA took with this game... when I heard Sims 4 first announced I flipped thinking that it would be Sims 3 with this awesome new interaction series and moods and prebuilt rooms... instead its nothing like it.

Fairycake, the problem, as I see it, is I don't understand what the play style for 4 really is. I mean, it's not a pure rotational play style, as things do still happen to your inactive households while you're away, such as giving birth and randomly naming the baby. It isn't legacy style, because without a developing town around your legacy the world turns stagnant without your own micromanagement of the community. And of course, ignoring the absence of toddlers, there isn't even a family tree.

It's not really a builder's game, because despite some new tools for prearranged rooms, there are no terrain tools, on CFE, no MOO, no basements, by tools or terrain management, limitation to only 3 levels, and the biggie, no CAST. It's not a sim maker's game, because despite the "intuitive" push/pull method, the range is restricted and the number of control points other than torso are less than in 3, and there is still no CAST to make things interesting. It's not a world builder's game either, for obvious reasons, like no ability to build worlds, and even if your could, the hoods would, as of now, be limited to lots of deco and a few lots.

So honestly, and it's not an attacking question at all, but just what does 4 bring to the table for sim players? Emotions? More multitasking? (I say more, because now that I pay attention, my 3 simmies do multitask to a greater degree than I noticed before my attention was drawn to it). A better look and feel?

Does it bring a solid foundation to justify buying in not only for the base game, but a bunch of EPs and DLC to round the game out over time? Because that's what this is all about. Not just a $60 impulse buy and mess with it for a few days, but several years of investing probably ~$100 a year in Sim stuff to keep it rolling, at least for me. And I'm not feeling it yet. I wish I could, because I would love to play an improvement over my bug ridden, temperamental TS3.

This and the post above mine sum up my feelings exactly.
Granted, TS3 had to grow on me for a week or two when I transitioned from TS2. After I learned to navigate the open world and found default skin replacements,though, I was completely hooked and didn't really play with TS2 as much. I don't ever see that happening with TS4. It's not just the lack of objects and features, as every base game suffers from this. It's the lack of a community feeling in my neighborhood. There's no sense of adventure and creation for me. I think this would have been a good online game given the simplicity and superficial gameplay. I wanted to like TS4, but I had never been so disappointed before by a sims game.

I really don't see what it brings to the playing table either. I wanted to do a legacy and edit the world to my liking, but none of these were really possible. When I realized that, I quit.

Ooooh I have, it's called Sims Medieval.

Yes. Well, no. I have zero intention of giving up The Sims 3 for 4.

Partly because I'm content with most things in The Sims 3, partly because there is nothing appealing about The Sims 4 to me.

Sims 3 isn't perfect and I still have a lot of issues with the developers choice - most I'll be modding out soon - but I still have fun. Build mode is still fun and with enough expansion packs and some creativity, you can design quite a lot. Right now I'm working on a large museum for a city world. By using the tomb objects from World Adventures I can have a large Ancient Egypt exhibition. Using the cheats and the Late Night room markers to make towering skyscrapers, I plan on building a lot of unique night clubs and hangouts. With Gameplay, I'm finding there's a lot more playability by trying new styles and challenges. I plan on making a family live in a mansion that's haunted with ghosts and seeing if they can endure it. I'm hoping to have a go at CAW sometime and build a city world.

Sims 4 either took out or reduced everything I liked in the previous games. The age groups are a leap back: Babies are objects, toddlers don't exist, teens are basically adults. CASt, the most useful tool in the series, is gone. Open world is out, the worlds look incredibly dull. Build mode is crap now, with only three-storey buildings. Surfaces look flat, the environment is hideous. Hell, they didn't even take advantage of fixing the things everybody complained about in The Sims 3. Instead of opening the community rabbitholes like the spa and cafes, they're gone.

I find it very difficult, I tried for like a week but it did just not work out. I returned to The Sims 3 and I am very pleased with my decision.
The Sims 3 has never been the perfect game but looking at it now with all the expansion packs, store stuff, cc, mods etc it makes the game a really good game. I mean, The Sims 4 is never gonna give me the feeling that Sunlit Tides or Monte Vista gives me.

Zengarden, yeah, I agree with you! I never played The Sims 3 for very long time because the game used to crash to desktop. But now, and I don't know why, the game is working perfectly without crashes and I can see all the charming TS3 have.

Gonna go ahead and echo previous sentiments: The more I watch others play Sims 4, the less I want to play it. In fact, the more I become convinced that not only is it not worth the pretty penny EA asks for the price, but it's actually a step backward in a few key ways that I wouldn't want to have to endure for the bajillion or so out-of-touch (Equally outlandishly expensive) stuff/expansion packs that are eventually going to plague Sims 4.
Open world and CAS/CAST are pretty much what wooed me from Sims 2 to Sims 3, but if Sims 3 hadn't had those, I'd still be on Sims 2, because it had a lot of other things going for it. Sims 4 has "shameless cash-grab" going for it. I'm not even slightly interested.

(I mean FFS, you can almost literally see the holes where there used to be some real content that ended up being removed before the release. It'd be like going to a jewelry shop like, "Hello, yes, I'd love to pay $500 for that ring over there. The one with the obviously missing gem pockets. Please make sure to charge me for when I come back and ask to have the gems put in, too.")

I like Sims 4, there are many things I like better.

However, it does very much feel like a shallow shell of its former self compared to Sims 3. Sims 3, for all its technical flaws, was a far more ambitious game. Much of what Sims 3 introduced to me, I miss terribly in Sims 4. I've been playing Sims 4 since there is still a lot I haven't done, such as many aspirations I haven't completed. Although they're not really much fun, so I'm not sure why I insist on completing it. Maybe because it was an expensive game and I feel like I need to do all there is to possibly do. Anyhow, I feel like once I've completed all there is to do and decide to go back to sandbox style play, I'll go back to Sims 3 because it seemed to be so much bigger of a sandbox to play in.

Now, I'm posing this as an honest question, because I have followed your posts for quite some time, and believe you have always been a reasonable and helpful contributor around here. And I get with the rest of your post which I snipped out that 4 is still far from perfect in your mind. But can you really help me by pointing out what it is in 4 that you do like better?

I really want 4 to end up being a great game. Honest. I've been playing sims games for a very long time, since the start, and I feel bad sitting on the sidelines right now. But based on the reviews I've read, the videos of game play I've watched, and the discussions I've followed around here, I'm just not getting it. So it would be helpful, even if you feel there are still real, outstanding issues with the game, to hear from a clearheaded source what you think they got right, and how it advances Sims play.

Sittin' in 'is rockin' char on tha front porch, spittin' tabacky juice off to tha side 'n polishin' the barral of 'is gun while lookin' ya up 'n down, he saiys, "Sims faw? You is faw it er agin' it. Roun' these here pahts, folks is agin' it."

Ok, I admit it, that made me laugh out loud ... whether it was the irony of the truth, or the delicious mental pictures conjured up with your words

I appreciate the kind words.
A lot of the things that I do like better about the game are things that many others have mentioned before, so unfortunately my "likes" may not be a unique viewpoint. Also, they may be rather minor especially considering the amount of CC out for Sims 3. They're minor enough that I don't see fit to abandon Sims 3 for 4, and can't imagine I ever will.
Anyway, what I like better on 4:

• Sim faces look better, if you compare no-CC to no-CC. Although I've been able to make Sims 3 sims that I really like the looks of, I did use slider extender mods to do it. The range of the virtual "sliders" on Sims 4 is still a little limited, but much less than that of Sims 3. The TS4 default skin also looks better. Good looking sims are pretty easy for anyone to make in TS4. So much easier, in fact, that even the computer can do it: some computer-generated sims actually come out decent looking whereas I hated every computer-generated sim TS3 ever made. Granted, there are slider mods and CC skin for TS3 that can make TS3 faces look better than TS4.
• Sim bodies look better, because they're more customizable so it's possible to give them unique bodies as well. Upper arm, lower arm, shoulder width, thighs, calves, head size, neck width, belly, butt, posture, hip width, everything can be customized. Some sims I've made, have unique enough bodies that I can even ID them from a distance even they're wearing an outfit I didn't give them (which happens to insane sims for some reason). There are slider mods for this as well, but I like that it's built into TS4 and they do work much better than TS3 slider mods as often TS3 slider mods can warp sim bodies in places or affects more than just the area they're intended to affect.
• The emotions. I do really like this, in that for many actions in the pie menus, they have completely different sound files and animations for every major emotion. Sad sims act and sound sad, angry sims act and sound angry, happy sims act and sound happy, flirty sims act and sound flirty. They even have different dance moves based on their emotions. This is pretty cool to watch, especially at first. However, I've noticed that once the new wears off and I start focusing on my own objectives or story, I'll start using fast-forward and these little emotional nuances no longer really matter.
• Multitasking. It's definitely pretty cool. It doesn't matter if sims are doing homework, dancing, or playing chess, you still have access to pretty much every social action. I can have my sim hacking on the computer while building up a relationship with others at the same time. There was mutitasking to some degree on the previous games, but definitely improved greatly in TS4 in most areas. There are some areas where multitasking went backwards, for example, they can no longer chat while fishing. There's also some times where multitasking just seems weird and unnecessary, like eating while digging. Seems rather unsanitary.
• More autonomous socials. Some people have actually posted to the contrary, so maybe this is subjective. To me, I feel like my sims seem to enjoy each other's company more, they seem more willing to engage in autonomous socializing in TS4 than I ever saw in TS3. In TS3, if I didn't stack a bunch of social interactions, they tended to like to wander away and do more mundane things like read books or use the computer. They still do that in TS4, but because they also multitask, they still keep chatting with each other even if they're distracted by other things. Well, except the smartphone. They don't multitask when playing on their annoying smartphones.
• Build mode is much easier. When I build things, I often start without a plan and just start plopping things down. In TS3, if it turned out I wanted to move something over a couple squares, I had to teardown and rebuild it a few squares over. In TS4, I can pick up and move anything.
• Graphics overall are better. I don't mean the art style, but textures come across crisper and there's none of that weird blotchy/fuzziness in shadows and on clothing textures.
• Search box in buy/build mode. Something I always wanted in TS3.
• Everyone stays until the party ends. I guess the TS3 way is more realistic as sometimes people do just disappear from parties without a word in real life, but that always annoyed me in the game.
• I like the looks of most of the EA clothes in TS4 over TS3. Granted, I'm sure there's lots of great CC clothes for TS3, but I never really bothered to look for any.

Mostly little things, none of which I like strongly enough that I would choose TS4 over TS3 if I could only have one. I definitely don't feel like any of what I like better about it makes up for lack of CASt and open world.

I don't see the reason why you should feel you have to give up one game for the other. It's not like when you upgrade an OP for another, or upgrade software. They're standalone games, each with their ups and downs. You can have all 4 sims-games on your computer, as long as you've got the space for them, so technically you don't have to give up any (unless you're lacking space or some such, of course).

I don't have TS4, don't know if I will get it at all, but I have TS2 and TS3 (which isn't working at the moment, but nevermind that). I've had them both installed, and (as long as both were working) I could play them whenever I wanted to.

The thing is...the open world. I mean, you can't just take that away. That is the future of games, the open world.
If this series is still going 10-15 years from now, and doesn't have an open world, the question is: Why can't you do it?
And if they do re-implement it, I will be like: See, you were wrong.

@GnatGoSplat, thank you, that was helpful. It is in line with much of what I've read, but the particulars you listed, especially about the look of the game (from a sim perspective) and the improved socials are useful to know. So maybe with lots of work to flesh things out, there is decent enough bone structure to end up with a reasonable sims game from it. Although even if they bring in some kind of color wheel, and a SP gets cobbled together (probably by the community) losing open world will always be a big deal to me.

It's too bad they couldn't have just waited another 6 months to release a more developed base game. I get the corporate schedule thing, and I know they already had a significant delay from reworking the original concept, but a 6 month delay would have meant that instead of scrambling to patch in stuff like pools and more reasonable careers (although that remains to be seen, as we haven't exactly gotten them yet) and putting all the premium DLC on the back burner, they could have had a far better roll out, with paid expansions delivered in a timely fashion, and without the speculative "Are they expecting me to pay for toddlers?" they're suffering through right now.

This release would make a great business case study of how not to roll out a product. Then again, EA does not appear to be alone in the recent problematic rollouts of big games this year. Just look at Watch Dogs or Assassin's Creed. Both AAA games like the Sims, and both suffering from failure to meet expectations (OK, more Watch Dogs, although I still enjoyed it, but AC is getting a lot of bad press about performance issues across different platforms and poor optimization of advanced graphics, but at least they're patching it as fast as they can).

That's true, I was speaking more hypothetically that TS4 isn't good enough to make me want give up TS3. I think there's a lot to like, but I can't say it's a "must have" or that people who don't have it are missing out big time. It's a mixed bag for me.

I do actually have TS2, 3, and 4 installed on my computer. Though I often do usually just play with one due to time constraints.

Thanks GnatGoSplat, that was a very insightful run-down. I agree with most of what you said... though the lack of CAST and the open world have me back with TS3. I just wanted to add that the one thing I really liked in TS4 is the way they implemented Gardening.

I received Sims 4 as a gift. I was very open about the game on what it is and what kind of longevity gameplay I will be able to have with it.
After 3 hours of gameplay I was already bored and was back to my Sims 3 neighbourhood. They only did 3 things right: Renewing my love for Sims 3, Sims interactions, and making me swear never to buy an EA's game.

I would actually disagree with you a lot, there.
Sims 2 pets were annoying, didn't serve much purpose, and took way longer (Unreasonably longer, if your sim was busy with doing ANYTHING else, like a job) to train. I don't even remember if you could train animals in Sims 2. Their interactions also felt very hollow or downright annoying/destructive and their body language was so mechanical-looking, and you only got 4 different variations of pet (Cats, dogs, the womrat, and...the bird? Right?).
Additionally, you can actually take measures to keep pets off your property in Sims 3 that you couldn't in 2. I remember having had to build fences around every lot I had just to keep stray dogs from digging up my entire yard* so my sim wouldn't have to spend 8 years outside filling the damned things back up.
Additionally, pet skills in Sims 3 are far more relevant and useful, on top of what you got in Sims 2. I can make bank off a dog if I just get his first hunting skill up, and he can be outside not destroying-everything-I-own* while my sims are at work/school. They can even help your sim find a date! Cats help with small pet collection for various applications, and horses can dig up plantables (As well as everything that comes with racing/jumping at the equestrian center). The only animals that don't actually serve any purpose are the small ones that are just cute to look at/interact with, but even they do something. They earn their keep by looking and acting more like real animals.
The way a dog would shake off water when it comes inside from the rain or out of a bath, the way a cat would curl/uncurl in it's sleep, the way a horse would automatically follow other horses that were galloping around like an actual herd animal, hell, they'd even interact with each other much more often than my Sims 2 pets ever did. Sims 3 pets are far less messy, far less destructive, and far less robot-wearing-animal-flesh. (Even considering the Sims 2 cheat that would allow you to control pets.) Sims 2 pets were just kinda...there.

*Read: Exceptionally annoying behavior.

Sorry for the off-topic. :x