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Lab Assistant
Original Poster
#1 Old 13th Jan 2021 at 5:59 PM
Default How much do you leave up to autonomy?
Recently I've been messing around in a test neighborhood, trying to find a balance of playstyles that I enjoy most.. I ended up moving some townies into uni and when I started playing them I decided on a whim to just.. watch what they do. I ended up giving them barely any directions for a while, I let them take care of their needs how they wanted to and only intervened when things were a bit too dull by inviting some friends/lovers over, sending them to community lots or completing wants that I thought were interesting.

Doing it this way made me feel like I really got to know the characters. I kind of enjoy leaving them to take care of their own needs because it leads to some funny situations- like that one guy who doesn't shower as much as he should.. Yes Orlando, I'm talking about you. <_< I found it really funny, how he'd be stinking up the place and yelling at me about it but then in stead of going to shower he would go and play pool or something. Not every time of course, but it happened pretty frequently and I just thought that was so silly and fun. Had I been managing their needs myself they would all be doing pretty much perfectly and that's not always fun.

Anyway playing like that was fun for a while, but now I've hit a bit of a wall- sometimes it gets just downright frustrating. Sometimes they get stuck in loops of trying to play video games/blog on the computer despite their fun being full so they are constantly turning the PC on and off and going from computer to computer like musical chairs. Super annoying to watch- and often makes them stay up all night doing that and then they're grumpy. Then there's the issue of sims constantly trying to talk to others who are busy and just standing there like idiots queuing action after action, not taking the hint.. And other annoying things.

Now I would find it fun to break up these annoying actions by using their wants as a guide but therein lies my second issue, my sims just keep rolling boring repetitive wants. For example: "Play computer game," "play soccer," "play chess," ...all while having a full Fun bar, of course... Trying to reroll them is really annoying, there's only so many dates I can stomach, I don't always have a sim to "check out" without changing my sim's sexuality, I don't want to go to community lots all the time, and I am afraid to complete those boring wants in order to reroll because I know that will make them even MORE likely to roll..

So now I'm back to struggling to find a balance here between autonomy/wants based play and control-freakishness. How do you guys play?
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Instructor
#2 Old 13th Jan 2021 at 7:53 PM
I was tinking about that a while ago and Mr AnMal said I'm basically a tyrant compared to some of the simmers we've seen on youtube - but I don't agree at all . I leave them on free will quite a lot, but I direct them into the situation first, if that makes sense. For example with my singles, who are out to mingle - they can choose not to mingle and mope in a corner on the community lot if they like, but not until after I've had them greet some random sims. That way they are sort of put on the mingling track. Seems to work better than just letting them loose on the community lot.

When it comes to wants and those tedious loops I'm brutal, though. I think of myself - if I always went by my direct momentary wants I could spend days in a loop of sleeping, playing sims and eating, only interrupted by quick chats with MrAnMal. But I also have long term wants (like getting back into work somehow) and I have my personal needs (like needing to create things now and then or I go crazy, or spending quality time with friends and family). If someone controlled me and neglected those longterm wants and needs and just let me do everything I wanted short term, I'd be miserable and very angry with my controller. So, I try to soft-direct them out of loops by alternating - do something they need to to for more longterm happiness, then fulfil a want from the panel - I think it works okay and I don't feel one bit guilty.
Mad Poster
#3 Old 13th Jan 2021 at 8:04 PM
My tendency is to make the big decisions for my Sims, while leaving the minute by minute choices to them. I don't like cancelling my Sims autonomous choices, unless the choice is obviously a bad one. Just like I wouldn't like somebody cancelling my choices -- unless I'd made a very bad one! One exception is when Sims decide to "Make" food, when there are hungry children or guests on the lot. In that case, if I catch them in time, I cancel the Make action, and instead ask them to Serve the same dish.

There are conventions in the way I play, but there are no hard and fast rules. I refuse to be hidebound by always playing to wants or anything like that. While there are no rules, there are laws. I may not infringe my Sims' inalienable constitutional rights to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.

I try to play in such a way that my Sims enjoy the game as much as I do. I never turn free will off.

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Theorist
#4 Old 13th Jan 2021 at 8:30 PM
With me it has always been like this: I leave autonomy on because turning it off would be too much of a hassle (like when I focus on one or two Sims in a household for a while, I need autonomy to keep the other Sims present from starving to death or peeing themselves) But leaving them to completely run their stuff by themselves is not something I enjoy, because it always leads to the same result of Sims playing musical instruments, swarming the baby in the crib (before leaving it lying on the floor) and yammering about their low motives.
And that's to be expected. When it comes down to it (and no matter what people might choose to interpret into them) Sims are just fairly simple video game characters with in-programmed routines designed for a human to take care of them. In comparison to Sims 1 they at least survive on their own, but they are still basically helpless (again with design, so that the player has challenges) and less intelligent than ants (ants are able to coordinate and alter their environment to benefit them, anybody who has had two Sims cooking something in a kitchen at the same time, knows that Sims can't do either of those things, they don't even realize that they can just remove that plate from the counter to open up space for their cooking ingredients. They also don't realize that another Sim is already cooking a family meal, so they don't have to.)

So I generally have stories in mind with Sims which I generally play out (to the point that I alter a Sims' LTW and *sometimes* even personality to fit the character I want. Though I do generally alter Sims' personalities as they grow older, sometimes reflecting events in their last Life Stage, sometimes randomly by rolling a die), but if some random autonomous behaviour while I wasn't controlling them throws up an interesting potential for a different story or a plot twist then I often accept it and integrate it into the larger storyline.

Like, for example one time a Sim who cheated on his wife and was thrown out of the house by her, kept showing up at the house, inviting himself in (due to his high Outgoing stat, I think) and after the initial period where they both were mad at each other, they started getting along and I chose to use that and had them re-marry.
So I'm generally accepting towards funny quirks like that, but I never sit back and let them have complete free hand, because it (in my eyes) generally ends up a noisy mess.

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Taking an extended break from Sims stuff. Might be around, might not.
Mad Poster
#5 Old 13th Jan 2021 at 8:57 PM Last edited by Annaminna : 13th Jan 2021 at 9:14 PM.
The only thing what I make sure that they are not starving. I will always send them eat or serve food whatever they are doing if I find them hungry. Everything else does not kill them.
The other thing I send them skilling if it is needed for promotions and they are in mood they want to do it. (some skilling is not autonomous unfortunately). Sometimes I send them learning also if they cannot decide what to do.
Some actions what they want desperately but they are not autonomous, like proposal and marriage and some more.

I have so much modded the game that sometimes when I fell asleep while playing and woke up all my sims were doing well.
Mad Poster
#6 Old 13th Jan 2021 at 9:03 PM Last edited by simmer22 : 13th Jan 2021 at 9:24 PM.
Uhm... Nothing. Nothing at all.

I'm more likely to cheat their motives up than turn autonomy on.

(Unless I for whatever reason am not doing pictures or CC testing or whatever else I usually turn off autonomy for. If I want chaos, then maybe... If you want sims to actually manage, make sure you have enough beds and showers/toilets/bathrooms, and fireproof the house, or sims don't survive very long).

I tend to run TS4 on autonomy, but those can run without food for days and generally do even more boring stuff on full autonomy - where's the fun in that?
(I've had a couple set themselves on fire with the first meal they make, but as soon as they have a cooking point they stop doing it - I think it's probably a bug. Or maybe they really are that bad cooks. At least my TS2 sims usually manage to just burn their first meal, if it's that bad - or, you know, make corn flakes )
Theorist
#7 Old 13th Jan 2021 at 9:13 PM
Quote: Originally posted by simmer22
I tend to run TS4 on autonomy, but those can run without food for days and generally do even more boring stuff on full autonomy - where's the fun in that?
(I've had a couple set themselves on fire with the first meal they make, but as soon as they have a cooking point they stop doing it - I think it's probably a bug)


Isn't Sims 4 created in such a way that basically nothing bad at all will happen to your Sims, because the current Sim team is worried that players get upset if something slightly negative happens in their games?
At least that's the idea I get from looking at the Sims 4 forums or official statements from the programmers.

Avatar by MasterRed
Taking an extended break from Sims stuff. Might be around, might not.
Mad Poster
#8 Old 13th Jan 2021 at 9:45 PM
^ Yup. They can run on auto for days and still survive. With TS2 sims you start panicking already halfway into the second or third 24 hours on complete autopilot, but I swear TS4 sims can run on auto for ingame weeks and not break a sweat. You need mods to make them more fragile! TS2 sims kind of feel more alive that way. You actually have to invest more time in taking care of them (of course, there's cheats - in TS2 I don't feel bad for using cheats because half the day goes by to take care of needs when I'm doing storytelling or other things where I can't constantly feed them or make sure they put in 8 hours of sleep. In TS4 I don't feel bad cheating because needs feel like they don't really matter anyway and are there just because "sims should have needs to fill up - but much slower so they can do all these other things").

Anyway, TS2 can have a lot of interesting things happening while on autopilot, so it can be a fun game for storytelling that isn't planned beforehand. I used to have a lot of fun with the auto setting, and you do get a lot of unplanned, unexpected and sometimes slightly crazy stuff happening. But autopilot can be a curse when doing storytelling, because you're lining up sims to do a picture, posing and putting a sim on an OMSP, you're trying to do the last fine-tunings on the face expression, and then suddenly the sim jumps away to who knows where because they decide to go talk to some other sim or whatever.
Mad Poster
#9 Old 13th Jan 2021 at 10:27 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Orphalesion
Isn't Sims 4 created in such a way that basically nothing bad at all will happen to your Sims, because the current Sim team is worried that players get upset if something slightly negative happens in their games?
At least that's the idea I get from looking at the Sims 4 forums or official statements from the programmers.


I like to watch GrayStillPlays TS4 on Youtube.
Needs Coffee
retired moderator
#10 Old 13th Jan 2021 at 10:39 PM
I leave them to socialize or do something interesting.
If they are being boring
Quote:
Sometimes they get stuck in loops of trying to play video games/blog on the computer despite their fun being full "
I do a few things.

First check what they actually have items on the lot. Most times sims won't roll wants to do things if those things are not available to do. For example if you place a fixer-upper car on the lot a sim may get a want to fix it. You won't see this want if the item isn't there. Place a pottery wheel and you may get a want for a pottery badge.

Second break the loop. Soon as you see it, just tell them to do something else. The games coding pushes certain activities. They can't help it.

Third I play with motivation levels. Neatness + Activity -playfulness. 8+ is overachieving, 1-7 average, 0 and below is low. Sims who score low I play the most hands off. This ensures I play sims differently and not all will be perfect.

Forth I use autonomy mods. Sims can't go and do what code won't let them do. In the vanilla game a sim can't choose to pick up a book and skill. I use an autonomous bookcase, golf putter mod and talk to mirror mod. This is why a lot of people use ACR, to prompt autonomous romance. There is also plenty of cc items that sims will use autonomously. There are also mods to stop certain behaviours or lessen them. For example 'less relaxing'. You can't just leave it to the games coding.

Fifth try a random scenario generator roll. Very rare that I use this, but they are around.

"I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives." - Unknown
~Call me Jo~
Mad Poster
#11 Old 13th Jan 2021 at 10:39 PM
"I have so much modded the game that sometimes when I fell asleep while playing and woke up all my sims were doing well."

Yes, same here. I like it, too.
I have other games that you leave on autonomy and all hell will break loose, and you get to clean up the game for the next 2 days.

Receptacle Refugee & Resident Polar Bear
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Mad Poster
#12 Old 13th Jan 2021 at 11:09 PM Last edited by simmer22 : 14th Jan 2021 at 5:28 PM.
Quote: Originally posted by Annaminna
I like to watch GrayStillPlays TS4 on Youtube.


... you too? (not just TS4, though... )

My game? Nothing bad ever happens because I don't let it happen (well - very rarely, and not in a while, and autonomy is usually kept off at all times along with motives kept up with cheats, so sims are happy at all times, because that's how it's easiest to take pictures).

Watching other people's games go to hell in a handbasket on Youtube for pure entertainment? Bring it on!

Maybe I should try another Asylum challenge this year, just to get into the game again - the one I improv'ed for a brief time a few years back kind of didn't work out. Maybe I didn't give them enough to do... Would perhaps be fun to do a bit of proper autonomy in TS2 again.

(But as long as you keep TS2 sims under some control, they're usually not particularly difficult to take care of. Depends how many sims there are, which ages, and how difficult you make it. Enough beds and bathrooms and properly fireproofed? All is fine unless you leave the game unpaused and unsupervised for too long. One bed and bathroom per household and hands off the wheel? You're asking for trouble )
Forum Resident
#13 Old 13th Jan 2021 at 11:17 PM
What do I leave up to autonomy? Everything. I have quite a few socials modded out to make sims act more like adults and more mature for their age. So with those out of the way, my sims can do whatever their hearts desire.
Forum Resident
#14 Old 14th Jan 2021 at 12:08 AM
Autonomy? Pshaw - it's never allowed in my current hood. Those little toons are my minions and must follow my orders. If I want to just sit around and watch something autonomous, I can turn on the television. I don't care if they shrug and roll their eyes at me or walk slowly dragging their feet to do what I've told them to do. Their wants and fears are mere requests which I may or may not grant to them. My wishes are their commands. If they start whining too much, I tell them to be careful - they're just a couple of keystrokes away from moving permanently to the neighborhood cemetery.

I am their strict, but yet benevolent overlord. Muah ha ha ha!

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Scholar
#15 Old 14th Jan 2021 at 2:30 AM
The only time I actually turn free will off is when I'm trying to have Sims fall in love or get engaged, because otherwise their constant wandering off to do stupid, piffling little things really kills the moment!

I tend to leave college students largely to their own devices, except that I try to get them all to bed around the same time and get them showered in the morning, and of course I have to direct them to skill or study, if they roll wants to do those things (they are also obliged to learn Fire Safety and Parenting, if they haven't already, but after that they're free beings). I find it's a good way of getting them to pair off, if they're in a co-ed dorm.

Other Sims are somewhere in between. I make them do what they need to do, then leave them to their own devices IF they choose reasonably wisely. When they start standing for hours wanting to play peek-a-boo with a toddler who's learning a skill, or to congratulate a Sim who's obviously busy and not interested, or they just keep stop-starting at some fun activity when their fun is full, I make them go do something they hate doing - it's their own fault; they had the choice and wasted it!
Mad Poster
#16 Old 14th Jan 2021 at 3:39 AM
I only turn free will off if I'm trying to stage photos. And even then, since I do it so rarely, I often forget to.

I'm playing an Apocalypse challenge right now (again) and I have one uncontrollable elder. Well, she spends her day wandering between chess and diary, and appreciating very much that her daughter unlocked tubs and showers, and complaining because she got fired before unlocking Culinary and can't just stuff bottles into toddlers/babies whenever because the fridge is backwards. (She managed to unlock Law Enforcement, and she's permaplat on LTA, so very good apocalypse spouse, really, in spite of that early firing.) The other sims in the household are largely micromanaged because food is at a premium and no dang it military's lifted you do not need to skip rope and run your hunger down. Sit. Down. Somewhere. Jumbok only boosts you so much.

Pics from my game: Sunbee's Simblr Sunbee's Livejournal
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Mad Poster
#17 Old 14th Jan 2021 at 7:17 AM
I almost always control my sims though free will is turned on unless I have to stage pictures and I usually have stories in mind for my towns though I will have sims who don;'t enter in a job search or choose to be farmers,artisans or crafters who can collect welfare as a supplemental income as they start out.Mt game is so heavily Modded that I likely Modded out most dumb interactions and made some things easier without cheating.
Forum Resident
#18 Old 14th Jan 2021 at 8:10 AM
I remember trying out wants-only and even autonomy only gameplay, where I only directed them to do something when they wanted to, or not at all and just let them roam around like free range chicken and only took control when it seemed like they're about to die.

Here's what I learnt: non-pre-made sims are boring as hell.

Think of dormies in uni: all they do is study, eat and do their assignments. Occasionally they watch TV or something, but that's about it. Unseasoned chicken. Where's the drama? Where's the excitement? Where's the sim somehow staving to death in the showers? (Okay that one wasn't my doing, but still)

Sims barely do anything interesting on autopilot, and sometimes their wants are bland as well. Seldom do I see like, a knowledge or popularity sim wanting to have their first kiss, let alone get married. I think it's a lot more fun to take control of their lives and make them get into situations on their own.
Lab Assistant
#19 Old 14th Jan 2021 at 8:15 AM
I've taken to turning off free will when there is a birthday to celebrate. I send the whole family to the room where the cake is, and say, "Where's Mom and Dad?" Of course, they've chosen this time to go woohoo. Your kid only has 4 birthdays before they're grown and gone, and you're going to skip the event for a little personal fun?
e3 d3 Ne2 Nd2 Nb3 Ng3
retired moderator
#20 Old 14th Jan 2021 at 10:15 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Orphalesion
Isn't Sims 4 created in such a way that basically nothing bad at all will happen to your Sims, because the current Sim team is worried that players get upset if something slightly negative happens in their games?
At least that's the idea I get from looking at the Sims 4 forums or official statements from the programmers.


Quote: Originally posted by simmer22
^ Yup. They can run on auto for days and still survive. With TS2 sims you start panicking already halfway into the second or third 24 hours on complete autopilot,


Sims 3 sims were perfectly capable too- the whole town would look after itself! But Sims 1? No matter how hard I tried, my sims were always on the brink of death! It is so difficult to keep sims fed and rested in that game, and they always scream at me that they are uncomfortable and not having any fun....
Theorist
#21 Old 14th Jan 2021 at 1:29 PM
Quote: Originally posted by simsample
Sims 3 sims were perfectly capable too- the whole town would look after itself! But Sims 1? No matter how hard I tried, my sims were always on the brink of death! It is so difficult to keep sims fed and rested in that game, and they always scream at me that they are uncomfortable and not having any fun....


From what I remember of Sims 3, Sims from households you aren't currently playing have a thing for "moving away" (getting deleted by the game). Do I misremember that or do you have a mod to prevent that?

With Sims 1..yeah...in Sims 1 they die if you look at them the wrong way, making trips to community lots and such rather precarious iirc. Wasn't one of the selling points of Sims 2 that the Sims are better at taking care of themselves?

Avatar by MasterRed
Taking an extended break from Sims stuff. Might be around, might not.
Mad Poster
#22 Old 14th Jan 2021 at 2:22 PM
Nobody made you use ACR on those settings, @gesine! When it's time for my babies to grow up, whatever adult or teen the game has decided should do the growing up drops everything in order to go "help with birthday," even if they're on the brink of motive desperation, and if the growing up fails they'll stand there holding the kid for an hour all ready to try again unless I give them other directions, which I don't do unless they're in a desperate case or I know what motive is holding the baby up. I have a tendency to let everyone free range from 5:00 on when a baby's due to grow up, because I haven't isolated a consistent criterion by which the game selects the upgrower. When a birthday party is going on, everyone on the lot (including passersby) is summoned to the cake as soon as the activity they're doing is complete. Sometimes, if someone was in the middle of something with a long animation, they wander in to blow a noisemaker while the birthday sim is eating the cake, but they get there.

I let sims make their own broad-strokes decisions about life and then direct them in ways that support those decisions. For instance, this went down last night: Kendall is living on her own and by and large rolls two kinds of wants: Buy Stuff She Can't Afford (a problem I seldom have with Fortune sims) and Get Back Together with Her Old Girlfriend Meredith. Meredith is engaged to Kelly and is presently in her post-graduate grace period spinning out her time in the sorority before launching herself on the limited housing and job market of Strangetown, for the most part rolling hobby wants and taking things easy. Kendall's social was low so I sent her to a community beach lot where she rolled, and I filled, a sequence of "I'm on a beach" wants and a want for a date. She was getting hungry so I sent her to a restaurant lot and had her call her apartment neighbor, Lilly, with whom she has two bolts and for whom she will occasionally roll a want when I have her scope the room in the common area. She and Lilly had a reasonably good date, except that Kendall kept wanting to do things with Meredith that she should have wanted to do with Lilly. So when she went home and wanted to invite Meredith over, I let her make the call, and then I sat and watched what they would do. The likelihood of anything romantic happening autonomously seemed to me to be low, because they have 0 chemistry (which is how Kelly managed to steal Meredith to begin with). But nope, Kendall seized her hand and kissed her up her arm and the next thing I knew they were making out. Then Kendall, wanting to get engaged to her (not a possibility unless Meredith breaks up with Kelly), got into the hot tub while Meredith, apparently remembering her status, went to play poker by herself.

So what now? Well, next time I play the sorority, Meredith will throw her graduation party, invite Kendall to it, and we'll see how things shake out. Will she and two-bolter Kelly demonstrate to Kendall the strength of their commitment? Will Meredith approach Kendall and break up with Kelly? Will Kendall approach Meredith and steal her from under Kelly's nose, as Kelly stole her out from under Kendall's to begin with? Will Kelly attack Kendall before either can interact with each other? Will Kendall attack Kelly? In the case of attack, how will Meredith react to the victor and the victim? Will everyone behave with painful propriety and leave me hanging? I'm not really afraid of that last outcome, but if it arises, Meredith will move into an empty room in an established household, freed up by a teen going to college, and we'll see how her wants roll, and how Kelly behaves during her final year at college, and how proactive Kendall is. Whatever happens, all three women will have something to say about it. Maybe Meredith wants to be polygamous. I have mods that can make that happen, but only if Kelly and Kendall can achieve a separate peace will I set it up. I won't be locking longterm wants until I get a clear direction.

Ugly is in the heart of the beholder.
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Mad Poster
#23 Old 14th Jan 2021 at 5:31 PM Last edited by simmer22 : 14th Jan 2021 at 10:06 PM.
Quote: Originally posted by simsample
Sims 3 sims were perfectly capable too- the whole town would look after itself! But Sims 1? No matter how hard I tried, my sims were always on the brink of death! It is so difficult to keep sims fed and rested in that game, and they always scream at me that they are uncomfortable and not having any fun....


Yeah... I played TS1 for a brief period, and those were a nightmare to take care of. They set the house on fire, went into motive failure every five minutes, and that's when I tried to control them.

(I was much younger, and probably horrible at micromanaging at the time - with a bit of patience and practice I'd probably gotten them under control, but still... compared to them, TS2 sims were a breeze, and TS4 sims were outright boring. I haven't played too much TS3, and most of it went well, but I had one kind of nightmare sequence where both parents in the house got themselves killed in very stupid/random ways within the first couple days, despite me trying my best to keep them alive. Sometimes individual sims really don't have any survival instincts. Can't remember what happened to the mom, but she went first, and I think the dad set fire to himself and then I made him jump in a pool to put out the fire, where he somehow drowned almost immediately . The kids got picked up by the social worker, and it was without doubt my shortest ever round of playing with autonomy on . My play sessions usually don't go down the drains this quickly with autonomy on, though - I just got really unlucky with that particular family )
Mad Poster
#24 Old 14th Jan 2021 at 6:37 PM
I hardly killed any Sims 1 sims, but it did involve a lot of micromanaging and speedlearning the game mechanics. And it was very frustrating having to deal with motives constantly when you were trying to advance a storyline.

Ugly is in the heart of the beholder.
(My simblr isSim Media Res . Widespot,Widespot RFD: The Subhood, and Land Grant University are all available here. In case you care.)
Field Researcher
#25 Old 14th Jan 2021 at 9:42 PM
I downloaded the TMNT, and gave them suitable personalities and plopped them on a mostly empty lot in my Tester hood. Left freewill on and watched their choices. Leo instantly went to nag Raph with a poke, who reacted by escalating to a fight. Mikey went to fix a snack. Donnie tried and failed to interact with his fighting brothers, before giving up to play on an arcade machine. It's funny now, but at the time it was uncanny how well I had matched their personality points so that they'd autonomously behave like themselves, and I never entered their household again.

I'm a young adult in poor health, trying to heal enough to complete my goals.
This is the song that never ends ~ It goes on and on my friends ~
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