Each Sims franchise entry focuses on one key aspect or theme and explores it through the Sims' virtual life. All the themes mentioned below are present in all Sim franchise entries to some degree. Aspects of them are just far more emphasized in certain ones. I list the primary focuses below:

Focuses

Sims 1: Life – How to best satisfy basic wants and needs so that you can accomplish life goals. Most important thing in the game are motives.

Sims 2: Family – How family grows through marriage, relationships, and time. Best exemplified by the introduction of the family tree.

Sims 3: Exploration or Environment – How sims interact with a larger and freer environment? Collectables were introduced in this installment to encourage environmental exploration.

Sims 4: Emotions – How can emotional states affect social interactions?

I started to think about this when I kept reading comments that mentioned that Sims 4 doesn't feel like it introduced anything new to the franchise. I'd say it's because it isn't a natural evolution of the franchise and the theme itself isn't strong enough to carry a mainline entry. As a side entry, it would have been fine, and most fans would have been clamoring for it to be implemented into the main series. Or it could be that we've just reached the limit of what can be accomplished by a focus exclusively on a Sim and their family alone.

Instead, we have to return to the Sims 3 and see what the natural evolution of it would have been. A problem with unmodded Sims 3 besides technical issues is that the neighborhood simulation has width but lacks depth. Neighbors are set dressing and have no real connection with each other or the towns they live in. The solution to this is the implementation of features that affect the entire community. That's why I think the next evolution in the Sims franchise should be the implementation of social roles and social norms.

Social roles could be like a town leader who sets, changes, or protects the social norms and an educator who passes these norms onto the children. An example of social norms could be conservative, libertine, tourist-focused, income-focused, or leisure-focused. Town leaders could either be the player or an NPC. For instance, town leader Mortimer Goth has implemented a conservative social norm that frowns on cheating and supernatural sims. While Malcolm Landgraab, as town leader, implements an income-focused town norm that frowns on poor sims. Some personality traits would also be favored by certain norms, such as family-oriented by a conservative social norm. The interaction social norms have with many familiar sim systems is so varied as to be limitless. I know it is a lot to take in, but please tell me what you think.

TL;DR - Simulating social and community norms would open up exciting new avenues for the Sims Franchise.

P.S. (Couldn't locate a forum for general Sims Series discussion. If there was one and I missed it, please move the thread.)

in TS1:MM you can turn children into adults -> TS2 aging
in TS2:AL you can visit neighbors -> TS3 open world
TS3:ITF features sentient robots -> TS4 emotions

Following this pattern we might get a preview of the next installment's main feature in the final TS4 pack.

I want The Sims 5 to be more about life choices. What happens if your sim decides to stay with their spouse instead of the new love interest? What are the longterm consequences of neglecting the children? Perhaps your sim is offered to invest all their savings into a new company: perhaps it goes terribly and your sim becomes homeless, or maybe your sim gets incredibly rich - but loses the romantic trait because they spend too much time on the business side of life.

Agreed- Sims 5 needs to be about cause-and-effect, and the accumulation of life choices in the creation of a personality/persona. How does this memory factor into a sim's fears and actions? How do their interests perpetuate in positive and negative manners? What effect do their actions have on the community around them? This is something that's been disappearing from the series since TS2.

It's time to have the game evolve past the tired 'ur sim wet their pantz!'-level of intelligence- your sims should be able to take care of themselves at a basic level, but their life decisions will depend on your choices. The humor and levity instead should arise from all the unexpected/messed-up social interactions your sims will do instead, with or without your involvement.

As such, the player should think of themselves less as a bored god toying with their subjects, but instead as an active collective consciousness directing the higher actions of a family unit within a community- I would also personally like the series to return to at least a superficial community-level simulation as it's the smallest continuous unit required to make these systems work believably.

I didn't know that pattern existed so that's kinda cool but, I'd say we've already seen some signs of community and social focus in the current TS4 expansion packs. Namely, Eco Lifestyle with its somewhat flawed NAP's and the clubs from Get Together. Both could be integrated into the base game as town meeting and social groups. Town meeting would be voluntary and if you didn't attend you could learn about it from the newspaper or town website. It could also implement a hard mode for builders as the town has to set aside funds for building and improving community lots from the taxes they collect.

Social groups are also voluntary, but would be natural groupings of townies based on personality such as snobs and materialistic sims forming the upper crust. Evil sims and mean-spirited ones would form the delinquents and so on. Your sim based on personality may gravitate towards one of these groups and could perhaps gain enough prestige and respect to become the leader. I don't know I think it just adds a new and unexplored social dimension to the sims.



The goal is more to add an additional social layer to your sims lives not to take away or ignore their personal lives. The focus of the sims has always been the sims and will always be the sims. A community focus will only magnify the personal choices you make for your sim. Divorcing or cheating on your spouse becomes a more difficult choice if it affects your relationship with sims in a more conservative community. The same with neglecting children who may gain worst traits and fall into bad social groups. Homelessness and extreme wealth matter less if no one reacts to it besides saying your sim smells bad. Community opinions and reactions is what gives the personal choices we make long-lasting consequences.

Other than stupid random deaths, our sims need more consequences (good and bad) for their choices, decisions, achievements. I want the game to feel alive again, and make what they do matter. Because nothing they do really matters in this game.

At this point, the trust players have in EA Maxis ever making a decent version of the Sims ever again is at rock bottom. They're going to have to pull some real magic out of the hat if and when it comes to making a TS5. But in the meantime, if sharing ideas, concepts and dreams on forum threads like this, of what a great sims game would be in the perfect world with a perfect Maxis behind it, then why not?

But I'm more afraid for the future of Maxis, than I am in speculating how great a TS5 could be if only they put their hearts and souls into it.

Think of the Maxis team behind the SimCity franchise. How, for decades, they made city simulators that were prize winning. They were king of the hills for ages. Too big to fail, it might have seemed. But they got complacent, too assured of themselves maybe. But whatever the failing, SimCity 2013, (On a par with TS4) was not liked universally. Not a terrible game to play, but just... urrrggg. Where's the magic of former iterations? Where's the depth and longevity? And so many frikken bugs!!! You see how you can't tell if I'm describing SimCity 2013 or TS4? (Both, is the correct answer.)

For a short while people talked of a proper SimCity 5 (Seeing as SimCity 2013 was not given the official numbered title of all past iterations.) Just like this thread here.

But the talk soon stopped. And the reason for that is; Cities Skylines. After that game released, for the longest time, folks were saying here's what SC 2013 should have been. That they, Paradox and Colossal Oder, just reworked SC into something better, something Maxis should have done originally. A true testament to the greatness of the Maxis franchise, once king of the hill, that even a game better than theirs, is still being looked at as if it is just a modded version of SimCity 2013. Though that's no longer the view all these years later. Two reasons. First, Cities Skylines is a powerhouse that has come to stand strongly on its own legs beyond comparisons. Second reason, compared to what anyway? Maxis SimCity are no more, because their EA overlords are ruthless, cutthroat SOBs who sacked them all off and closed the franchise down as soon as C:S was released. Screw giving Maxis a second chance to be kings of the hill again, and screw the idea that healthy competition can push you and your products to excel to greatness. And screw the Maxis staff. You're all fired!

Too big to fail?

Perhaps from the EA executive angle, the chief exec sat in his office, like Mr Burns in the Simpsons, and said to himself, "mark my words, it may take a couple of years, it may take a decade or two, but we will eventually buy you up, like we always do, and you will be known thereafter as EA Paradox. And all your bases are belong to us. Mwahaha, mwahaha, mwahahahaha. Oh yes, and then we will run you into the ground and kill you off forevermore. Like we always do. Mwahahahahahahahaha." Then buzzes the intercom to his secretary, "Delores, send in the Maxis SimCity team." Thinking to himself, "I like to do my killing before breakfast. Mwahahahahaha..." Maybe, perhaps. (Save Paradox! - Stop buying and loot box gambling with Fifa!!!)

Well, perhaps I've said enough. maybe too much. So I'll finish off with a final word that may make all the difference in history repeating and the survival or extinction of the last half of Maxis and a possible, or not, TS5.

Paralives.

(Now you also know the real reason why they are dragging out TS4 and making no start on a TS5. Perhaps it's a curse, having the number 5 to the iteration, and having the word "para" in the name of the competitor? Could, be, could be? Hmmmm???? So then, is anyone up for crowd funding me to get a game called ParaFifa underway? And we will name our new company "Paradisiacal," to first emphasize the sheer bliss in our products, and to further secure the curse that knocks EA to the ground. )

ParaFifa?  That's just being spicy.  Besides, if EA keeps being slammed with lawsuits over gambling, there is a good chance FIFA will end up in the EA Games graveyard as well.

Paralives is still very much in the pre-beta stage. This is not a slam on the developer, they've said as much on their site.  It is going to be a few years before ParaLives becomes a thing, if it becomes a thing.

In all seriousness, why do people think TS5 is going to be better than TS4?  If there is going to be a TS5, it is going to be the same people working on it with their same boss, same Wall Street overlords, same subverting away from things that players feel are important, ect... Never mind all the same empty lectures about being transparent. When team Maxis finds themselves in hot water, they take to their bunker; like they are right now.   SimGuruDuke is supposed to be the voice for TS4. His Twitter feed has been silent since the 18th.   The other voice in command is SimGuruLyndsay. Her twitter has been silent since Nov 13. I'm not feeling the transparency.  Heartburn? Absolutely.  Team Maxis dealing with the mess they created?  Nope!

People like to talk about speculating.  There was a lot of speculation that Maxis would get off their duffs and fix all the things they broke before Thanksgiving which was this past Thursday in the US.  Those daydreams were crushed. Wednesday came and went, Father Winter's beard is still destroying people's games, console players are becoming more and more pissed off as days pass and now we can't even call TS4 a builder game because team Maxis broke that too.

To use the old and tired log jam analogy,  there is going to have to a serious un-logging of the log jam in order for TS5 to be a viable thing. The only way to do that is to blow things up so water can flow again.  EA isn't about undoing their messes. As long as a game continues to make revenue, they keep adding more logs thus creating more problems.  When the water ( revenue) dries up, they abandon ship and move on to cause another log jam somewhere else, such as is the case with Sim City.

I can appreciate healthy doses of optimism, but facts are facts. 

Sim City 2013 - that was a massive flop. I didn't pre-order, and was so grateful when I saw the rain of reaction at the Paradox forums. People were infuriated - not just that it was a bad game, but that they couldn't even *play* it.

I'm pretty sure from the timing that that is about when Paradox gave Colossal Order the green light on Cities: Skylines. Because the pre-orders were a very healthy number, so the demand for that kind of game was clearly there.

Cities: Skylines is a great, great game. Memory hog, though.

It seems I underestimated the frustration here and I somewhat feel the same way as I've just migrated back to Sims 3 (Which EA didn't even put on sell for the holidays). My speculation here was just an outgrowth of my research into why the Sims 4 was such an unengaging experience. A little background on my recent sims experience may help. I last played TS3 around the release of Showtime and bought TS4 on release, but was uninterested in it because of the closed world and didn't play it again until last year. I fully modded it out, bought a couple packs, and made some great looking sims. After I was done creating them I was left wondering what do I even do with these guys?I didn't realize whims had been disabled or even existed in the game, though, seeing as they don't work, it probably wouldn't have made a big difference. The lack of direction from the lack of functional whims is exasperated by the fact that you can't send anybody off into the world without a loading screen. In summary, I'm just catching up with all the Sims 4 brouhaha.

As for EA Maxis, I don't really have faith they'll execute my vision or even the commonly held belief that Sims 5 should be the Sims 2 & 3 combined. Which I think stems from the fact that EA downsized the team from the Sims 3 days in a cost-cutting measure, corporate interference in the developer's vision, and that the current Sims team may have lost track of what draws people to the Sims franchise and the life simulation genre in general. Combine that with overwork and decreased budgets and the lack of enthusiasm from the developers is understandable. They're in a tough position knowing that they'll never be able to ship a quality product that they can be proud of and that the consumer can truly enjoy.

As far as Paralives goes, I'm a little bit wary even with all the pre-Beta work he's shown us. So far, he hasn't communicated what his hook is or what Paralives will be bringing to the life simulation genre. Instead it seems he's just testing the limits of the Unity engine for its ability to run a complex life simulation which is also somewhat concerning. Mostly because he may have to restart development if the Unity engine isn't capable of what he's planning. I still hope he succeeds in his goals and brings some competition to the genre.

I feel like TS4 and SC2013's problems are foundational, both of which have had cascading consequences:

SC2013:
- Glassbox system heralded as revolutionary for its agent simulation
- However it became apparent that things that did not need to be simulated were simulated (i.e. power, water, sewage)...why?
- At the same time, the system was underdesigned as the 'universal' agent system seemed to undersimulate traffic patterns, producing patterns that did not take into consideration traffic jams or road hierarchies
- This meant that the fundamental traffic system was broken- sims did not have a permanent home, meaning that coming from work or school, they would literally enter the first house available until it was full, then the next, etc.
- Same happened in the morning- each business would find the first house and give those sims jobs- as a result, there were no real traffic patterns that players could take into account when designing cities
- Its node-based system meant that a certain level of detail was not possible- meaning that you would have ugly patches of grass that you couldn't fill in.
- At the same time, the processing power required to run this 'simulation' meant that the cities themselves were limited in size, and the city LOD system meant that cities could not be next to one another for aesthetic reasons.
- This meant you had tiny cities, separated from one another by miles- this meant that another fundamental drive in city game- creating a sprawling metropolis- could not be attained.
Result: Massive dissatisfaction and the failure of the franchise. Players were limited in their control from a micro- and macro-scale. Maxis tried to reboot the franchise using SC2013 assets and the Unreal engine, but the office was closed before it could happen.

TS4:
- Retooled out of 'Olympus', an online MMO that was instanced and oriented towards controlling a single YA sim avatar.
- The time it took to retool the game into an offline life simulation meant that many expected basic features (pools, toddlers, NPCs) were missing at launch, and that other life-stages were underdeveloped
- As a result, they managed to ship a pretty but extremely bare-boned base game.
- It also meant that neighbourhood lots had to be instanced and that you needed to enter a loading screen to visit a neighbour's house...though the lot's already been loaded (even some of the interiors, which wastes processing power).
- Its limitations also meant that any form of CaSt was not planned from the start, meaning that the game's bloated with texture files, which usually take up the most HD space in terms of assets.
- People have also postulated that the limitations mean that every EP world/neighborhood is allocated a certain limited number of lots/maximum lot size (a number decreasing from the early EP hoods).
- I'm not 100% sure, but @coolspear postulated that the engine limitations mean that they have limitations on the animations available that can be actively loaded.
Result: A entry in the franchise that seems to have its wings clipped, and still lacks many features that have made the previous games in the franchise enduring.

I'm sure I forgot some other issues, but these are just from the top of my head. I think that Maxis' problems really started appearing during Spore and TS3, and were perpetuated from there onwards.

I play TS3, I bought the packs I wanted when EA still printed discs.  I don't do Origin and haven't logged into my Steam account in at least 5 years. Word around the internet is currently people can get everything for TS3 for around $100.00 via Steam. I don't know if that is true or not, but for anybody that may be interested, going to look doesn't cost anything.

TS4 was supposed to be online game. They pulled that idea after SimCity tanked.  Since then, TS4 is like Frankenstein.  They take things from previous games, occasionally add in new things and have been 'trying' to make TS4 make sense since then.  Gurus spent over 5 years talking about how the game had to be kept realistic, but when Disney handed them a wad of cash, suddenly being realistic no longer mattered and Journey to Batuu became a thing.  Some people are more tolerant to this waffling and in game advertising than others.

As for the team Maxis, my thoughts on their lack of vision and or understanding what a sims game is supposed to be isn't popular.  There are still plenty of people on team Maxis that have worked on previous versions of the game, so they do know what makes the community tick, what sells and what doesn't.  There was a article posted recently where Graham talked about how they go against community wishes because this is EA's idea of fun.  It may be fun for them while in the process, but once the torches and pitchforks come out, suddenly they're victims.

If they are that tired, bored or whatever, then it's time to move on.  Android Wilson is always yapping about how they make games for the player, and all of their games are fun, blah,blah,blah.  There is a complete disconnect between the devs that work on games and management.  Andrew Wilson is the CEO / hustler.  It is his job to keep tabs on the daily stuff and schmooze with Wall Street.  He has no clue what goes on in the sims community, people that play are just sales numbers.  He has no idea that console players along with many PC players have been pissed off since the last patch for TS4; nor does he care.

Sims 3 has been repeatedly on sale at Steam for at least the last 5 years, generally for $4.99 a pop for the base game, and each of the EPs and SPs. You could indeed get the whole game for just under $100. Having the Steam version also means you aren't pushed to 1.69.

If I quit the Sims 4, I suspect I will go back 2 incarnations, to Sims 2. Or quit the series altogether, unless Sims 5 is a knockout (exceptionally unlikely).

Thank you for confirming Steam sales.  Staying away from patch 1.69 is a really good idea.

I've talked about quitting the franchise, but I've found what that really means is I need a break.  My game can go untouched for months, then for whatever reason, I'll feel inspired to play and it is never the same way I played before my break.  Currently I'm not into 'playing', but I'm perfectly happy to go about whatever world I'm playing and snap pictures of sims doing whatever it is that their doing.  The beast that is TS3 can be tamed, but it does take patience, knowledge and mods.

Carl's Sims Guide did a video for what he'd like to see in a TS5.  I agree with his points but I'd never buy it. I'm too far on the jaded spectrum to ever trust EA to do the right thing; the Origin requirement is a automatic nail in the coffin.  What is interesting is the screen shot of a forum post that Graham made about live services and how great they are. That post didn't age well... For anybody that wants to read it, skip to 9:34.  What Needs to Be Done to Make Sims 5 Great

Unfortunately, they hasn't been true in quite a while. For Black Friday and the entire autumn sale on Steam this week, TS3 didn't go on sale, but TS4 did. Doing a little bit of research it seems this has been the case since TS4 was added to Steam in 2018 or so. As Steam and Origin are made to be similar price-wise in order to prevent excess competition between the two marketplaces. Right now all TS3 expansions are permanently $20 and all TS3 stuff packs are also $20 (why they didn't also cut the prices of those in half boggles my mind) for a grand total of $379.81 if you want to get the Sims 3 Complete Collection on Steam. That's not including the permanently overpriced Store Stuff which goes on sale only individually. Making TS3 not exactly a cheap switchover compared to the always on sale Sims 4 packs. Just to rub salt in the wound Steam advertises the Sims 4 sale on the Sims 3 page with a clear message to grab the newest entry in the Sims Franchise.

I wouldn't expect many new people or even fed up Sims 4 players will be picking up the Sims 3 that haven't previously owned it. Especially when that's the price to gain the complete experience.

Sims 3 was on sale for Black Friday. They weren't $5.00 a pack, but they were on sale.  Perhaps this was just a US thing and not everywhere else, I dunno.

https://simscommunity.info/2019/11/...e-sims-3-games/

Whatever we get, it better have shops in the base game. I don’t know how they got away with bars, lounges AND clubs, but shopping from planters and refrigerators, and having base game fountains but not pools. Just ghetto.

THEN - ALL OF THE NIGHTCLUB & POOL STUFF IS IN GET TOGETHER.

The date on that article is November 2019 and is talking about a sale for last year. The last time that site mentions a sale for Sims 3 on Steam was Cyber Monday of last year. There was no sale this year and trust me I would know as I checked both Origin and Steam during their Black Friday sales periods. It was also noted by posters on the Sims Forum that there was no sale this year.

If I would hazard a guess, I figure this is an intentional move by EA given the reaction to the Sims 4 lifespan being extended for a year or two not going over to positively with fans. Gotta keep em from switching so you can sale em the last few packs.

It is my opinion that right now the sims team is in complete bewilderment. The failure of Journey To Batuu selling well, as well as its unsatisfying gameplay, most likely caused them to doubt their ability to continue the Sims 4 successfully. (You say Andrew Wilson didn't care? Think of how he felt when he had to pass Batuu's numbers over to the Disney brass!)

But since it was already in the queue, Snowy Escape had to be released -- and it has become a success! No, it's not perfect either, but it has injected some needed optimism into EA/Maxis' veins. The board of directors are back to smoking cigars and drinking cognac again!

Ok -- I'm going to play devil's advocate and say that EA/Maxis has learned a few things from these last two experiences. That they have learned their lesson and shall work hard to give us a more fantastic and less buggy Sims 5 experience.

Uh-oh . . . a car with flashing lights just pulled up into my driveway and two men wearing white just got out. One is carrying that funny looking coat with long arms that I'm so familiar with. OK. I gotta go now. Talk later.

You forgot to add the word "non-online" or "singleplayer" to be clear. Cheers

Cheers to you too.

I don't see any sign that EA is capable of learning anything other than to admit they don't have the talent to make a better game and cut and run as soon as there is viable competition in the game niche they dominate. Good game designers, like good engineers, cost money! I was reading about this kind of management in a Scott Adams (author of Dilbert), they drive their cash cows right into the ground, making money all the way down. When the company is wrecked, they move on to the next good product to destroy.

I won't lie, even with all the amazing concepts and ideas people make for a Sims 5, just thinking about another Sims game made by EA makes me exhausted.