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Mad Poster
Original Poster
#1 Old 2nd Mar 2009 at 5:04 AM Last edited by Rapsheba555 : 2nd Mar 2009 at 5:36 AM.
Scrunching up a sim into a small car? Can it be done? [Edit: easily?]
As some of you may know, I'm making a kart from the game "Mario Kart Wii." It's a fairly small kart and it's not really designed in the game to sim proportions. sims have long legs and are much skinnier than mario characters. My problem is that when I finally correctly scale the kart to be about the right proportions to a sim, the legs stick far too far out the front. so my question is this: Is there a way to change the way a sims sits in a car? I've seen it done for bikes where the legs basically become like the sim is sitting on a chair at a 75 degree angle, and the legs are more compacted. How is this done and does it have to do with the car's skeleton? And can it be done without rotating the sim to a ridiculous angle in the car?

Current scaling and leg clipping: [ignore the horrendous looking body shadows and head ]


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Fat Obstreperous Jerk
#2 Old 2nd Mar 2009 at 5:08 AM
In order to significantly change a sim's posture, you will need to redo the entire animation sequence for getting into the car and arriving at the sitting pose. Otherwise your thing just looks like crap, so you may as well not bother. :P

Unfortunately, there are not very many TS2 animators.

Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I cannot accept, and the wisdom to hide the bodies of those I had to kill because they pissed me off.
Mad Poster
Original Poster
#3 Old 2nd Mar 2009 at 5:19 AM
>XP Crap on a puppy. Here was what i had hoped to accomplish:



Next question: If I'm not worried about the getting-in process, can I just adjust the position the sim takes after they arrive inside the car?

"When life gives you lemons, see the lemons, feels the lemons, BE THE LEMONS!"

Take a look-see, hmm...? Go on, click them:
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Field Researcher
#4 Old 2nd Mar 2009 at 2:32 PM
Why you don't change the mesh? Put the "pedal" where the sim is putting the foot. You don't need to change car skeleton.

It's alright to make mistakes you're only human. Inside everybody's hiding something. Take time to catch your breath and choose your moment. Don't slide.
Mad Poster
Original Poster
#5 Old 3rd Mar 2009 at 1:56 AM
because when the sims sits in the car normally, the feet go through the steering column and the knees go through the wheel. It just looks bad. I'll still have to move the pedal some, just not as much.

What i need to know is this: Can I adjust ONLY the position the sim takes when sitting and not adjust the getting-in animation? If so, can somebody point me to a tut or explain it to me? I know milkshape can do animation, but I have no idea if the animation is compatible with ts2.

"When life gives you lemons, see the lemons, feels the lemons, BE THE LEMONS!"

Take a look-see, hmm...? Go on, click them:
The Super Mario Project, Nintendorks Island-Celebrating 2 Years Online!
Fat Obstreperous Jerk
#6 Old 3rd Mar 2009 at 2:29 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Rapsheba555
What i need to know is this: Can I adjust ONLY the position the sim takes when sitting and not adjust the getting-in animation?
All these things CAN be changed if you're prepared to spend a LOT of time fiddling numbers in a trial-and-error way. It is not, however, practically possible to do this: The get-in-transition from floor to seat is basically a canned animation deal.

My advice is to scrap this project, because there is no way it will come out looking like anything other than crap, unless you happen to have an on-staff animator somewhere in your team. Sometimes you just have to know when to fold 'em: I've killed dozens of projects before anyone has noticed they were ever considered. You should probably just cancel this project and delete the thread: If at first, you don't succeed, destroy all evidence you tried.

Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I cannot accept, and the wisdom to hide the bodies of those I had to kill because they pissed me off.
Field Researcher
#7 Old 3rd Mar 2009 at 2:48 AM
So hard, O.o

But, yes, if you don't know how to code and make the animations be compatible, just forget, until you have the necessary skills.
I can't help, not comfortable yet with "sim-to-object" animation.

It's alright to make mistakes you're only human. Inside everybody's hiding something. Take time to catch your breath and choose your moment. Don't slide.
Mad Poster
Original Poster
#8 Old 3rd Mar 2009 at 5:50 AM Last edited by Rapsheba555 : 3rd Mar 2009 at 5:59 AM.
Ok geniuses, what do i do with the kart? >:\ I guess i'll just have to screw around with the car's skeleton.

If you're not even willing to point me in the right direction I'll just have to go elsewhere until I find somebody who will at least give me a hint. I'm NOT giving up because I've worked on this for months and to drop it now would be a waste of many weeks of hard work up to this point. Numbers I can handle. Try me, I'm not as deluded as you think. Nor do i appreciate the sentiment. I know what it entails and i'm willing to take on the challenge. People said I'd never figure out how to mesh because it was too hard. Wrong. If i give up now i'lll have given up before I've even tried.

Edit: I've done some coding, not much, but i have a general idea of how certain types work. If it entails a giant field of numbers all just sitting around, I'm willing to sort through them until I find what i need. i know (obviously) how SimPE works and I've managed to combine a few things with coaching into a set of things that if done incorrectly would kill my game. If i ever hope to do this as a career, I might as well starting learning now, so start talking.

"When life gives you lemons, see the lemons, feels the lemons, BE THE LEMONS!"

Take a look-see, hmm...? Go on, click them:
The Super Mario Project, Nintendorks Island-Celebrating 2 Years Online!
Mad Poster
Original Poster
#9 Old 3rd Mar 2009 at 6:02 AM
Quote: Originally posted by J. M. Pescado
My advice is to scrap this project, because there is no way it will come out looking like anything other than crap, unless you happen to have an on-staff animator somewhere in your team. Sometimes you just have to know when to fold 'em: I've killed dozens of projects before anyone has noticed they were ever considered. You should probably just cancel this project and delete the thread: If at first, you don't succeed, destroy all evidence you tried.


Scrap this? Not now. And if we all destroyed the evidence of things we failed at (not that i intend to fail) nobody would ever have a base to work from and we would never get anywhere. And often a single person can do what a team cannot: think coherently. i'm only one person and i have no intention of giving up. It may look like crap, but you have to make crap before you can make gold.

SO: Now what i want to know is: are the animation files for the various car actions (woohoo, pull out of driveway, get in, etc) all separate files or are they all rolled into one? I would expect they would be separate, but it's still good to be sure.

"When life gives you lemons, see the lemons, feels the lemons, BE THE LEMONS!"

Take a look-see, hmm...? Go on, click them:
The Super Mario Project, Nintendorks Island-Celebrating 2 Years Online!
Scholar
#10 Old 3rd Mar 2009 at 7:36 AM
The animation files should be separated and not bundled together. I am not the expert, but perhaps you can adjust the SLOT location of all the seats in the car. Move the slot around until you find a decent pose. I've seen many custom cars that do this. Fresh Prince's cars come to mind, and so do some of TreZilla's. The sim will perform the animation, and then suddenly jump into the preferred sitting location.

There is a tutorial on the site that explains how to do this.
Mad Poster
Original Poster
#11 Old 3rd Mar 2009 at 8:08 AM
hmmm, I know how to move WHERE the sim sits, what I need to know is how to adjust HOW the sim sits.

Is there any way to do it using this method? I know it probably won't show a sim skeleton, but it'd be easier to do in milkshape than in simpe.

"When life gives you lemons, see the lemons, feels the lemons, BE THE LEMONS!"

Take a look-see, hmm...? Go on, click them:
The Super Mario Project, Nintendorks Island-Celebrating 2 Years Online!
Scholar
#12 Old 3rd Mar 2009 at 10:04 AM Last edited by Jasumi : 3rd Mar 2009 at 11:35 AM.
As far as adjusting HOW the sim sits, you will probably need to create a custom animation and allow this to override the MAXIS one. Of course, you don't want this animation to override for every car, so you would need to make sure to use a unique instance and GUID for your hack.

What you need is a basic a2o animation, which doesn't really involve the car. Just the sim snapping into the slot the way you want. I have a tutorial on another website.

Here: http://forums.sim-oasis.com/index.php?topic=597.0

What you need is to create an overlay animation. Don't worry yourself over the pose box object portion of SimPE, for now you just need to create a solid animation and add it to a new package.

If you need help, I'll try to answer your questions soon.
Mad Poster
Original Poster
#13 Old 3rd Mar 2009 at 11:31 PM Last edited by Rapsheba555 : 3rd Mar 2009 at 11:38 PM.
HALLELUJAH!!! the lady knows what i want to do! Now all I have to do is actually do it.

What i want to know is can I clone the regular sim pose from a car and modify that? That'd make it infinitely easier.

ALSO: will i have to make custom animations for the separate genders (I'm pretty sure not), and will I have to do different ages (I think so)?

"When life gives you lemons, see the lemons, feels the lemons, BE THE LEMONS!"

Take a look-see, hmm...? Go on, click them:
The Super Mario Project, Nintendorks Island-Celebrating 2 Years Online!
Field Researcher
#14 Old 4th Mar 2009 at 6:23 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Rapsheba555
HALLELUJAH!!! the lady knows what i want to do! Now all I have to do is actually do it.

What i want to know is can I clone the regular sim pose from a car and modify that? That'd make it infinitely easier.


We can't import animations and modify them. Many things is lost on this process. You have to make a new one.

Quote:
ALSO: will i have to make custom animations for the separate genders (I'm pretty sure not), and will I have to do different ages (I think so)?


No, male and females share the same "skeleton" The animation will work fine on both of them. Only be sure that the animation is "unisex".
Elders, teens and young adults share the same skeleton too.

It's alright to make mistakes you're only human. Inside everybody's hiding something. Take time to catch your breath and choose your moment. Don't slide.
Mad Poster
Original Poster
#15 Old 4th Mar 2009 at 7:43 PM
ok, so here are the assumptions i'm working under:

1. I must make a new animation

2. The "Get-in" animation is canned with the "sit in the car" animation (ie: if i have to make a new animation for the seated position (pose?) I also have to make a new getting in animation)

3. I must make separate animations for driver and passenger and separate animations for (can toddlers ride in a car?) children and teens/adults/elders

Now for the questions I have:

1. Does the "a2o animation" that Jasumi referred to just involve editing the pose the sim sits in in the car or is it, like I assumed above, also canned with the "open door-get in-close door" animation?

I guess that's the only question I have at the moment. Correct me if any of my assumptions are wrong.

"When life gives you lemons, see the lemons, feels the lemons, BE THE LEMONS!"

Take a look-see, hmm...? Go on, click them:
The Super Mario Project, Nintendorks Island-Celebrating 2 Years Online!
Field Researcher
#16 Old 5th Mar 2009 at 3:47 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Rapsheba555
ok, so here are the assumptions i'm working under:

1. I must make a new animation

2. The "Get-in" animation is canned with the "sit in the car" animation (ie: if i have to make a new animation for the seated position (pose?) I also have to make a new getting in animation)

3. I must make separate animations for driver and passenger and separate animations for (can toddlers ride in a car?) children and teens/adults/elders

Now for the questions I have:

1. Does the "a2o animation" that Jasumi referred to just involve editing the pose the sim sits in in the car or is it, like I assumed above, also canned with the "open door-get in-close door" animation?

I guess that's the only question I have at the moment. Correct me if any of my assumptions are wrong.


I never cloned a car, so, I don't know how many animations it uses. But, trying to help:

1 - yep, the car mesh doesn't fit with the "normals" animations".
2 - Same answer. Doesn't fit. You can use the same but it will be "distorted"
3 - I think the "getting in" cane be the same for both. It's only "open the door and seat".

For the question, like I said, i don't know if the animation is "continuous" or one animation for each interaction.

It's alright to make mistakes you're only human. Inside everybody's hiding something. Take time to catch your breath and choose your moment. Don't slide.
Mad Poster
Original Poster
#17 Old 6th Mar 2009 at 4:14 AM
i think what it is is that there's one animation for open door-get in-sit down-close door, then it transitions seamlessly into a stagnant pose that the sim holds while sitting.

"When life gives you lemons, see the lemons, feels the lemons, BE THE LEMONS!"

Take a look-see, hmm...? Go on, click them:
The Super Mario Project, Nintendorks Island-Celebrating 2 Years Online!
Scholar
#18 Old 6th Mar 2009 at 12:21 PM
Yes. There are two animations. If you want, you can search the anim package for the types of animations there are for getting into a vehicle. I think it's located in the Base Game, I can not remember. But the tutorials in the ANIM section mention it.

But to make things easier for you, I would just change the seating animation.
Mad Poster
Original Poster
#19 Old 6th Mar 2009 at 9:35 PM
well, it's not the animating I can't do. i like doing the bone movements and such, it's just I'm not very proficient at linking it all up. But maybe I will just stick to the sitting anim. We'll see how it goes. Where IS the anim tutorials section anyway? What is it under?

"When life gives you lemons, see the lemons, feels the lemons, BE THE LEMONS!"

Take a look-see, hmm...? Go on, click them:
The Super Mario Project, Nintendorks Island-Celebrating 2 Years Online!
Field Researcher
#20 Old 7th Mar 2009 at 2:53 AM
Animation & ANIM Files

It's alright to make mistakes you're only human. Inside everybody's hiding something. Take time to catch your breath and choose your moment. Don't slide.
Fat Obstreperous Jerk
#21 Old 7th Mar 2009 at 6:30 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Rapsheba555
And if we all destroyed the evidence of things we failed at (not that i intend to fail) nobody would ever have a base to work from and we would never get anywhere.
That's not true. Failed works are not the same as informations. All you need to do is take away the information that it doesn't work. And don't do that again.

Quote: Originally posted by Rapsheba555
And often a single person can do what a team cannot: think coherently.
This is true. And I never said you had to scrap it...but unless you have an animator somewhere? Yeah, good luck. Unfortunately, making good animations is not something that, as far as I can tell, be explained. It's not science.

Quote: Originally posted by Rapsheba555
i'm only one person and i have no intention of giving up. It may look like crap, but you have to make crap before you can make gold.
And then you take that crap and you flush it down the terlet.

Quote: Originally posted by Rapsheba555
Now what i want to know is: are the animation files for the various car actions (woohoo, pull out of driveway, get in, etc) all separate files or are they all rolled into one? I would expect they would be separate, but it's still good to be sure.
All seperate. There isn't actually a pull out of driveway animation that is relevant to your moddings, you're mostly concerned with Get In/Out, and Seated. Getting a static pose animation for seatedness might not be too hard, but getting a smooth in/out animation set, that will be much harder. I'm guessing you don't actually want a woohoo functionality, because I can't exactly see where someone would accomplish that. Plus there isn't actually an animation anyway, EAxis totally copped out.

Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I cannot accept, and the wisdom to hide the bodies of those I had to kill because they pissed me off.
Mad Poster
Original Poster
#22 Old 9th Mar 2009 at 6:06 AM
Nah, nix the woohoo if possible, but i have some amusing ideas for ways to fit a passenger in.

Leave the actual animation of the mesh to me. I've been fooling with that for quite some time, I just never knew how to link or save it. i have a portrait artist for a mother, so she can help me with realistic human movements if necessary, but I already know how it should look, so I think I'll be able to manage the movement.

"When life gives you lemons, see the lemons, feels the lemons, BE THE LEMONS!"

Take a look-see, hmm...? Go on, click them:
The Super Mario Project, Nintendorks Island-Celebrating 2 Years Online!
Fat Obstreperous Jerk
#23 Old 9th Mar 2009 at 8:16 AM
Hey, if you can figure out how to make animations that don't suck, join me, and the power of the Dark Side can be yours. Together we can rule the galaxy as faffy artiste and codemonkey.

Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I cannot accept, and the wisdom to hide the bodies of those I had to kill because they pissed me off.
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