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Mad Poster
#151 Old 26th Sep 2020 at 4:09 AM
In the last stages of my playing 2 I did 8 generations of a family. So yes it can be done in 2. My one in 3 is over 30 in spite of many detours and patches of not playing.
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Original Poster
#152 Old 26th Sep 2020 at 4:11 AM
I think people forget that rotational play in TS2 was not there simply because Maxis wanted it to be, it's because the time TS2 was released warranted it. There was absolutely no way that they were going to be able to simulate an entire town at once, the technology wasn't there. So of course the focus on the Sims themselves was going to be greater, as I've always said. I remember enough of TS2 to remember that it had just as many AI faults as TS3 too, they were just masked better by the attention to detail placed on the Sims. Yes, TS3 had many shortcuts in comparison, but in the grand scheme of things I really don't see what the big deal is. Content-wise, yeah some content in TS3 fell short of expectations for some, but let's not pretend it's anywhere on the level of something like a TS4 pack.

Look, I respect that TS2 appeals to you more personally, but I really wish people would lighten up with the "TS2 is simply a better game because I say it is". I think it's incredibly short-sighted to say that TS3 is a lesser game because it doesn't cater to a specific playstyle better than another. Frankly, I think it's more "anal" to have to go around playing every family one decides to create/include in their game, which can be 4-5 Sims per family the way rotational players like to play. That is just way too much micromanaging for me. And I guarantee that if TS3 had been released as TS2.5, people would have been screaming that it was more of the same and stuck with TS2 anyway. TS3's open world and manner of handling Sims and their families obviously appeals to a lot of people, otherwise this section would be dead by now. And on that note, if the option you're talking about from TS2 where you'll able to age up townie Sims, that was added with Freetime. And correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't it only allow you to age up three or so Sims that your Sim actually knows. So it was more like a band-aid for covering up the fact that TS2 progression entirely relies on you as the player to move it forward.

You have been chosen. They will come soon.
Forum Resident
#153 Old 26th Sep 2020 at 9:05 AM Last edited by parrot999 : 26th Sep 2020 at 9:46 AM.
Quote: Originally posted by Jathom95
I think people forget that rotational play in TS2 was not there simply because Maxis wanted it to be, it's because the time TS2 was released warranted it. There was absolutely no way that they were going to be able to simulate an entire town at once, the technology wasn't there. So of course the focus on the Sims themselves was going to be greater, as I've always said. I remember enough of TS2 to remember that it had just as many AI faults as TS3 too, they were just masked better by the attention to detail placed on the Sims. Yes, TS3 had many shortcuts in comparison, but in the grand scheme of things I really don't see what the big deal is. Content-wise, yeah some content in TS3 fell short of expectations for some, but let's not pretend it's anywhere on the level of something like a TS4 pack.

Look, I respect that TS2 appeals to you more personally, but I really wish people would lighten up with the "TS2 is simply a better game because I say it is". I think it's incredibly short-sighted to say that TS3 is a lesser game because it doesn't cater to a specific playstyle better than another. Frankly, I think it's more "anal" to have to go around playing every family one decides to create/include in their game, which can be 4-5 Sims per family the way rotational players like to play. That is just way too much micromanaging for me. And I guarantee that if TS3 had been released as TS2.5, people would have been screaming that it was more of the same and stuck with TS2 anyway. TS3's open world and manner of handling Sims and their families obviously appeals to a lot of people, otherwise this section would be dead by now. And on that note, if the option you're talking about from TS2 where you'll able to age up townie Sims, that was added with Freetime. And correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't it only allow you to age up three or so Sims that your Sim actually knows. So it was more like a band-aid for covering up the fact that TS2 progression entirely relies on you as the player to move it forward.


Of course that's a matter of taste. Catering to a playstyle isn't what makes the Sims 3 a less good game. If they wanted to bring the series in a different direction, fine. I was open to it in 2009 and I'm still open to it... But if that is your goal, follow through. The ironic part you are missing is The Sims 3 IS The Sims 2.5. EA failed to acknowledge and build the game around the strengths and limitations inherant to the direction they went down.

If I made a JRPG, and then the next game I made it a platformer instead, would you expect me to try to force all the content and gameplay of the JRPG into said platformer with no changes to accomodate the differences, when they are fundamentally different beasts? Like... imagine every time you shoot an enemy being taken into a turn based battle. And every time you jump over a pit you get EXP... Doesn't really work, does it?
That's where The Sims 3 falls apart. It's built like a sequel to The Sims 2 in terms of content, but the gameplay shift clashes with this. I'd prefer if it was more like 2, but I'd love it if it was it's own thing too, but it isn't either of those things. We have a weird situation of a game being super ambitious in concept but failing to follow through in execution... As a result, you have a game that's trying to be something it isn't. I'd probably like a Sims game with this more focused scale if it was done right. But you can't just completely change the core of a game, and then slap a bunch of gameplay not built for it on top. I remember that during development they were talking about removing motive bars as we know them only to backtrack... I get the sense the game was the result of a tug of war between execs pushing for a safe followup to The Sims 2 due to it's success, whilst the development team wanted to try something new... The end result being both and neither.

But don't get me wrong. This game has a lot of issues, and isn't as polished or well designed as it's predecessors, but that doesn't mean you can't like it of course. I'd argue in many ways, whilst 2 is a better game, it's also not a 10/10 great game. I'd give it like an 8/10. The good far and away outweighs the bad, but there is definitely some advice it could have taken from The Sims 1, and some choices that were perhaps not the best for the series going forward. It's okay to like imperfect games. The Sims 3 isn't a masterpiece, but that's really quite okay.

I revisit it on occasion for when I just wanna mess around with some weird facet of the game I never actually played through (which is like... 90% of it... My goddess is this game too massive for it's own good)

As for your approach to 2, I don't see how being reliant on the player to move it forward is in any way a problem. It's your neighborhood. It's a sandbox. That's what this series was always supposed to be. A sandbox with gameplay challenges within. And it's not as if the game waiting on me makes it static. Things do change. They just need a bit of help to get changing.

And as I said before, I don't rotate. Why bother? Why should I need all my sims to age in sync? The only reason I can think of is realism obcession, and I have an active and strong distaste for that perspective on videogames, for some rather heavy ethical reasons I don't wanna open the can of worms of.
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Original Poster
#154 Old 26th Sep 2020 at 10:05 AM
Quote: Originally posted by parrot999
Of course that's a matter of taste. Catering to a playstyle isn't what makes the Sims 3 a less good game. If they wanted to bring the series in a different direction, fine. I was open to it in 2009 and I'm still open to it... But if that is your goal, follow through. The ironic part you are missing is The Sims 3 IS The Sims 2.5. EA failed to acknowledge and build the game around the strengths and limitations inherant to the direction they went down.
...
As for your approach to 2, I don't see how being reliant on the player to move it forward is in any way a problem. It's your neighborhood. It's a sandbox. That's what this series was always supposed to be. A sandbox with gameplay challenges within. And it's not as if the game waiting on me makes it static. Things do change. They just need a bit of help to get changing.


Honestly, most of TS3's shortcomings likely center around management issues with the EA themselves at this time, as in the studio. Maxis was reorganizing at the time to focus on Spore, and The Sims was handed off to a new development group. One that was certainly going off the trend of open world games becoming so prevalent. Couple that with expansions being swapped between different studios, mostly Redwood Shores and Salt Lake, with essentially no communication between them, plus several bits of content being relegated to the Store, and it's easy to see where a lot of TS3's problems with interconnectedness lie.

I can understand why people prefer TS2, really. But I don't view TS3 as any less than what came before. There's a multitude of reasons I still play it today over TS2, which if I didn't mention I played for years as well before I ever got TS3. From CASt, to Story Progression (admittedly, EA's default system isn't that great, but it's there at least.) and several smaller features besides that make it hard for me to go back.

The thing I really don't understand is how TS3 can be viewed as basically taking the series nowhere, when that's exactly what a game like TS4 is. A broken engine that was retooled to be something it never was meant to be. A broken emotions system. Traits that are meaningless because they offer no unique gameplay and rely completely on said broken emotions. Features that get more and more broken with every new pack and patch. Constant brand endorsement being placed in game whether you want it or not. And the worst in my book being that you can't play anything but in a complete modern setting. The game isn't designed for it. Everything assumes you're playing according to Maxis' "vision".

That last part about reliance on the player doesn't mean as a whole. I'm talking about TS2's approach specifically where you *have* to play as each member of the family not living in the same household, lest you run into situations where grandma is gonna outlive her grandson because you didn't bother to switch over for whatever reason. Playing different households is one thing, and something I do frequently. But having to do it out of necessity because the game doesn't have the required logic to just age everyone up automatically and save me the trouble of doing it manually? No thanks. But it's clear we're of different opinions on this, so I'll rest my point here.

You have been chosen. They will come soon.
Test Subject
#155 Old 26th Sep 2020 at 11:16 AM
There are things I like from all the Sims games. I think the humor of the first game was great and I miss things like Claire Bear, the sad clown, having a surprise visit from Drew Carrey if you throw a great party. However, it was way too hard, especially keeping relationships after the update that changed it to having a long term relationship bar. I even remember downloading a mod to disable it. I also think that the worlds included in it were some of the best, especially the downtown and magic ones. You could make a mall and the sims would go to the register in each store instead of going to a different store to check out. I also liked how the cats would hunt rodents and leave their corpses for the sims they liked. It was a bit of a pain, but it was so very CAT that it just felt right.

The Sims 2 had the best sims imo. The different life stages blew me away the first time I played it. It was great to be able to raise sims from a baby to elder. I loved the gossip interaction especially. I remember a sim I made who married some townie. She burned the first dinner she cooked for him, and he told everyone. Fast forward to his great grandkids, and they were still talking about that first burnt meal. It was like a family myth about them. I also really liked the hobbies and how you could create sims that would make things and sell them at stores. The sims just seemed like they had so much more personality. Plus, it has my favorite supernaturals. I liked having to actually do something to create them. On top of that, I think the apartments are the best of the series. I really liked building an apartment building and being able to move sims into each of the apartments.

The Sims 3 is the one I play the most these days. Yes, I don't think that the sims themselves are as good as the ones from 2, but I think the open world and the customization offered by create a style outweigh that for me. Plus, there are horses. As a horse lover, I love the fact that I can make some crazy horse girls. The moodlets were an addition I wasn't sure about at first, but I started to like how they would have the sims actually have some consequences to the things that happen to them beyond just social things. I also really like the holidays. And I don't know why I love the investigator profession so much, but I still find it fun. Especially the stupid stakeout with the bushes.

I just wish that they didn't do some of the stupid things with the expansions. The whole full moon zombie thing is just dumb. Not to mention how quickly everyone ends up as celebrities. I also don't know how or if EA did anything about the story progression, but I remember many early games before I found story progression mods where I would find myself living in mostly empty towns as all the other sims would age up and die three or four generations in. I also found the apartments really lackluster.

I played some 4 when it first came out, but I found myself losing interest real fast every time I did so. I liked the multitasking and how much control you had building stuff and being able to move rooms and walls. However, I didn't like the lack of color options for clothing and furniture. Furthermore, the sims themselves just seemed so bland and boring. It really felt like they were all the same. With the latest packs I think that it's really the downfall of the series. Not necessarily that it will kill the series, but that what made the series special is lost. Knitting wouldn't be bad if it was part of a larger hobby pack. And a Star Wars pack? A Star Wars Sims spinoff I could see, but as an expansion? That's just, I don't know, wrong.

I'm hoping that we get a Sims 5 that looks back at the older games and takes what makes them great, but I doubt it'll happen. As to the first three games, I think they're all great in their own way, and I can't say that one is better than the others, as they all have different strengths and weaknesses. But as a game? Like I said, 3 is the one I play the most.
Field Researcher
#156 Old 26th Sep 2020 at 5:02 PM
The thing that I find frustrating about these discussions is that no matter how much people talk and talk and talk, the entire issue boils down to this: the first version of the game you played will always be the best to you; anything that comes after will pale in comparison and signal the downturn of the series. It's like that tired debate we have here in the United States about which season of Saturday Night Live was the best and when it started to get worse. And every single time, the person will claim that the season when they first started watching it was the best. I guarantee you that if a Sims 5 comes out, the generation that was introduced to The Sims series via Sims 4 will be ranting and raving that Sims 5 is the downturn.
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retired moderator
#157 Old 26th Sep 2020 at 5:14 PM
Quote: Originally posted by thesims1depot
...the first version of the game you played will always be the best to you; anything that comes after will pale in comparison and signal the downturn of the series.
Not always- I played Sims 1 first, and still love it but think Sims 2 and Sims 3 are much superior. I haven't played Sims 3 for a while, but Sims 2 is my favourite and the one I'm currently playing. Sims 4 doesn't have much for me- I can make pretty and diverse sims, but there's not much in the way of world building.
Forum Resident
Original Poster
#158 Old 26th Sep 2020 at 5:19 PM
Quote: Originally posted by thesims1depot
The thing that I find frustrating about these discussions is that no matter how much people talk and talk and talk, the entire issue boils down to this: the first version of the game you played will always be the best to you; anything that comes after will pale in comparison and signal the downturn of the series. It's like that tired debate we have here in the United States about which season of Saturday Night Live was the best and when it started to get worse. And every single time, the person will claim that the season when they first started watching it was the best. I guarantee you that if a Sims 5 comes out, the generation that was introduced to The Sims series via Sims 4 will be ranting and raving that Sims 5 is the downturn.


I can't speak for anyone else, but that's definitely not the case with me. I've played every Sims game dating back all the way to TS1. And enjoyed all of them when they were their newest respective games. TS3 just happens to scratch a particular itch for me that allows me to get consistently more enjoyment out of it. The issue with a game like The Sims is that each iteration is incredibly different from each other and there's really nothing else like it. So this sort of divisiveness is unfortunately going to be inevitable. I will say that people who are just being introduced to the franchise through TS4 will likely do as you've mentioned, but I'd say that that's coming from a situation of EA making TS5 even more barebones and newer players not realizing what they're missing.

You have been chosen. They will come soon.
Mad Poster
#159 Old 26th Sep 2020 at 5:32 PM
I think it might be more realistic to say that users of early editions of many products like games perceive a point where the series peaks for them, not so much that the first version they ever used or had a positive experience with is always going to be the best fit. I loved TS1 back in the day, but can't really say that any of its successors (even TS4) pales in comparison. Same could be said of SimCity Classic, the 1989 version. Great fun, for its time, but it doesn't exactly offer the same depths of experience that the later versions and even the much reviled 2013 one do.

Similarly, I don't know of anyone who pines for the days of MS Word 1.0 (WordPerfect maybe, but that's a different story), while many do feel that the versions after 2000 or maybe 2003 aren't really as pleasant or convenient to use for their purposes as the older ones were and miss the simplicity and easier ways to reach important to them but what for others are more obscure features. Many of us who practically live in our web browsers feel that the current versions of most/all of the big players today are missing the mark and not really paying attention to what we users want, but I can't really say we wish to run Netscape or IE 2.0 again either; somewhere in between there things were just right for many us but then the technology on which they were based became outdated, today they would be huge security risks and there would be performance issues, etc. It's kind of the nature of the beast and I would be very surprised if studies haven't been done to measure and document the phases a product series tends to go through from cradle to grave (if there is to be a grave at the end).
Lab Assistant
#160 Old 26th Sep 2020 at 8:06 PM
Quote: Originally posted by parrot999
I completely disagree with that blatantly false assessment for a few reasons:

First of all, The Sims 2 CREATED legacy play. The term legacy comes out of the Sims 2, and it was touted as a big deal, because playing multiple generations was a huge change from The Sims 1.

True, but part of the legacy gameplay for me is trying to find suitable partner for my Sims and if I only play one family that makes it more and more complicated with every generation. Let's use Pleasantview as example here. If you don't add any new Sims to the game, there are 18 Adult Sims that don't have any other relationship, 17 of which are townies. That may sound like a lot, but if you have 2-3 children every generation and you don't want to have a relationship with anyone who had relationship with previous generation, then you may lose all available Sims after just 5 or 6 generations and that's thinking you will limit your Sims to just one partner at time. If you play Romance Sims, you may reach this limit way sooner, even if you don't mind to play with the Sims who already have premade relationships. True, marrying townie or move them in with you will cause the game to create new townie, but if you only marry one Sim per generation and you will do that to a townie, not a premade Sim, it will still only mean one new Sim per generation for your next generation Sims.

Quote: Originally posted by parrot999
Secondly, The Sims 2 does actually provide an option to age up family friends when your sims do. (It was a late addition to the game, but I am talking abouf each game with full expansions here.) which opens up more slots for the game to generate new characters.

But only for townies. And there's not that many child or teen townies to begin with. If you'll do that with premade Sims, no new slots for you and eventually, no new kids or teens for your Sims to befriend and age up, unless you create them.

Quote: Originally posted by parrot999
And unless you are seriously that anal about literally all people in the game not aging equally, you very much can just play one family. With things like the aforementioned age up options, or the cowplant (or any death really), or just the fact that marrying townies removes them from the townie roster, you can very easily get more new faces into the neighborhood, because if someone is removed from any of the NPC pools, another takes their place, and it's not like there are just five townies at a given time or anything, but hundreds of characters. So it isn't that big an issue anyways. Certainly not one that breaks legacy play. To think otherwise comes off as kind of a petty shot. Because the fact the game handles aging differently really isn't a fatal flaw that destroys legacy play.

1) even with all sub-neighbourhoods, it's more like a 100s or lower 200s, that's not my definition of hundreds of characters. Mind you, I only count adult townies, not children, teens and NPCs of any age, except for maids, because trying to force NPCs in in Sims 2 to even a friendship, not to mention marriage, is known to potentially corrupt your games (happened to me more than once, before I realised that fact).
2) There's the problem that your children and teen Sims will only have a few Sims to play with and, as mentioned above, if you'll age them, then, no new ones for the next generations. And it will honestly get old to see Alexander Goth or Dirk Dreamer being friends with every new generation. And that is fatal flaw that destroys legacy gameplay for me.

Quote: Originally posted by parrot999
Third of all, The Sims 3 despite having an entire pack dedicated to fleshing out the other age groups still falls kinda flat when it comes to this part of the simulation side of the game. The game's mechanics are very much focused on young adults, and the other age groups are practically afterthoughts in 3, and generally just not all that fun to play, whereas they were more integrated in 2. For example, in 2 Sims who die will send out inheritance to family members. 3 reduces this to a lifetime reward, which is... a blatant mechanical downgrade in every way. Another example is there are significantly fewer unique interactions between the different age groups except when interacting with adults.

We had this debate before and will, most likely, have it again in future. Yes, family interactions were better in Sims 2, but they are not as bad as you paint them in Sims 3. We even have some unique interactions or features to enhance family or generational gameplay that are not in any other Sims game (at least yet), like Imaginary Friends, driving lessons, Trick or Treat, or the seasonal lots. Yes, it is sad we did not get things like inheritance or, my favourite, Marco Polo, but there's still a lot to do with children and teens. I don't feel like they are afterthoughts.

Quote: Originally posted by parrot999
Then there's the fact genetics are broken in The Sims 3, so there goes a good portion of the fun with legacies in the first place. You'll never see a sim with their grandparent's hair or eye color, skintone, or facial features that aren't directly tied to their parents, and if their mother or father dyes their hair whilst pregnant, the child gets the dye! Talk about immersion breaking!

Not 100% true. While less common than in Sims 2, Sims still can have their grandparents' genes. Dye is difficult thing, yes, but there's the thing that what one player may consider dye, another one may consider natural, even if it's unnatural colour. For example, you may consider pink hair dyed, but another player may consider them natural, because, you know, it's The Sims and you yourself did mention strong distaste with realism obsession

Quote: Originally posted by parrot999
And none of this is helped by 3 having far worse AI in general, family never really act or feel like it. Esp children and toddlers to their siblings or pets. And since all relationships are equalized in 3, there is little drama to come out of familial matters. (Which kinda makes arguments for story progression kinda moot since the kinds of relationships sims can have with eachother are so limited anyways. Do you really care if townie #78 gets a divorce, when the only real difference is they just don't like eachother anymore and live in a different house?)

Once again, not totally true. Sims do interact with each other autonomously. The AI in Sims 3 is far more superior not only to that of Sims 2, but also to that of Sims 4. Sims tends to do a lot of things autonomously, sometimes even to the point that it bothers me. There even was patch that that added some interactions to children with toddlers and they do tends to do that autonomously as well.
Yes, the equalised relationships made things more lame, but IMO it was necessary to do with the Story Progression and such a big open worlds. Otherwise, the game would, most likely, be even more laggy than it already is. I don't like it either, but it was necessary shortcomings. And yes, you may not care that Sims you don't know divorced, you may not even notice that, but, like in real life, you will care if you know those Sims and/or if your children knows their children. That's just part of realism you may not like but is there for those who do.

Quote: Originally posted by thesims1depot
The thing that I find frustrating about these discussions is that no matter how much people talk and talk and talk, the entire issue boils down to this: the first version of the game you played will always be the best to you; anything that comes after will pale in comparison and signal the downturn of the series.

Totally not true, at least for Sims for me. I played Sims 1, 2 and 4 from almost the time they were release and with 3 I waited a year until I got it and yet, I still consider Sims 3 the best Sims game. Now, with Pokémon, that may be a whole different matter, since Gold was my first Pokémon game and, along with Crystal and the remakes Heart Gold and Soul Silver, I still consider them the best Pokémon games ever. But we don't talk about Pokémon games here, do we?
Inventor
#161 Old 27th Sep 2020 at 2:12 AM
I read "3 having far worse AI in general" and I thought "Okay, I'm done." There's no point in arguing with someone who has no idea what they're talking about. I've gone down that rabbit hole way too many times.
Mad Poster
#162 Old 27th Sep 2020 at 3:16 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Naus Allien
I read "3 having far worse AI in general" and I thought "Okay, I'm done." There's no point in arguing with someone who has no idea what they're talking about. I've gone down that rabbit hole way too many times.


I am amazed that folks are spending so much time/words in this discussion at all as the 2 vs 3 was debated I thought to the death years ago. And this is kind of like debating religion or politics, that they go nowhere. Thought this was totally a dead horse a long time ago.
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retired moderator
#164 Old 27th Sep 2020 at 7:29 AM
Quote: Originally posted by daisylee
I am amazed that folks are spending so much time/words in this discussion at all as the 2 vs 3 was debated I thought to the death years ago.
Nah, there's always something new to say in debating the Sims. Or at least, something old to say to people who weren't even born the last time you said them. Just like in politics!
Lab Assistant
#165 Old 27th Sep 2020 at 7:52 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Naus Allien
I read "3 having far worse AI in general" and I thought "Okay, I'm done." There's no point in arguing with someone who has no idea what they're talking about. I've gone down that rabbit hole way too many times.


I'm assuming you think the AI in the Sims 3 is good, then? I haven't had the patience with my computer to open the game up and actually play lately, so I wouldn't really know. I'd actually really like to know what people think of the Sims 3's AI; it's something I've thought about ever since watching Plumbella's videos where she let all the Sims games run autonomously and compared the results.

(Which were hilarious, by the way.)

Oh c'mon. There better be a point to all this stress I'm under.
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retired moderator
#166 Old 27th Sep 2020 at 11:04 AM
@LittleCheshire Those videos sound hilarious, do you have a link? I looked on her profile and she has hundreds of videos, and searching for Freewill or autonomy didn't help me.
Lab Assistant
#167 Old 28th Sep 2020 at 11:08 AM
Quote: Originally posted by simsample
@LittleCheshire Those videos sound hilarious, do you have a link? I looked on her profile and she has hundreds of videos, and searching for Freewill or autonomy didn't help me.


I think she made one video for every game and the title is always like "I left Sims ... unpaused for one year". Searching for "plumbella unpaused" will bring results already.
Lab Assistant
#168 Old 28th Sep 2020 at 1:00 PM
There's the Upaused Saga, but the videos of hers that I'm talking about are her Expert Mode Saga, here it is here:

Sims 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWvAgH5wLMw
Sims 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpvEG3EVp2A
Sims 3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtkAlfe_Z8M
Sims 4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJ8Lqa-EtRY

Someone made a joke that in all the other games everything crashed and burned, while in the Sims 3 the worst thing that happened was the horse had daddy issues.

Oh c'mon. There better be a point to all this stress I'm under.
Field Researcher
#169 Old 28th Sep 2020 at 1:37 PM Last edited by thesims1depot : 28th Sep 2020 at 1:57 PM.
Quote: Originally posted by simsample
Not always- I played Sims 1 first, and still love it but think Sims 2 and Sims 3 are much superior. I haven't played Sims 3 for a while, but Sims 2 is my favourite and the one I'm currently playing. Sims 4 doesn't have much for me- I can make pretty and diverse sims, but there's not much in the way of world building.


And

Quote: Originally posted by Jathom95
I can't speak for anyone else, but that's definitely not the case with me. I've played every Sims game dating back all the way to TS1.


People are taking my comments out of context. I was specifically talking about these types of heated discussions, where people are trying hard to convince everyone that Sims Iteration X is the "End of the Franchise," or "Signals a Major Downturn,"

It's one thing if people want to talk about why one iteration is their favorite. It's when it gets fanatical to the point where they're now spreading FUD about the franchise in general because of a new iteration. They complain about the "magic" being gone, the game not being the same, etc., so the franchise being dead. But of course the magic is gone; a sequel will never be as magical as the first iteration you played, when everything was fresh, new and different.

It seems as if every iteration after Sims 2 there are threads like these. There were thousands of threads like this one posted during the duration of Sims 3, and now similar threads are being posted about Sims 4. Meanwhile, sales have always been strong for each iteration, so these types of FUD discussions don't make sense. As long as sales were/are strong, Sims 3, 4, 5 and beyond will never be the franchise's downfall or downturn. They might be the downfall for fans of a particular sequel but not for the franchise itself.
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retired moderator
#170 Old 28th Sep 2020 at 2:11 PM
Quote: Originally posted by LittleCheshire
There's the Upaused Saga, but the videos of hers that I'm talking about are her Expert Mode Saga, here it is here:

Sims 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWvAgH5wLMw
Sims 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpvEG3EVp2A
Sims 3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtkAlfe_Z8M
Sims 4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJ8Lqa-EtRY

Someone made a joke that in all the other games everything crashed and burned, while in the Sims 3 the worst thing that happened was the horse had daddy issues.
I'm amazed that Sims 4 turned out like that, very reminiscent of the Sims 1 video! Thanks for the links.

Quote: Originally posted by thesims1depot
People are taking my comments out of context. I was specifically talking about these types of heated discussions, where people are trying hard to convince everyone that Sims Iteration X is the "End of the Franchise," or "Signals a Major Downturn,"


Oh I see, but it still stands for me- I'm about the only one on the Sims 4 new Packs thread who said that the Batuu pack looked good. Better than knitting, anyway!
Lab Assistant
#172 Old 28th Sep 2020 at 5:02 PM
Yeah. As much as I don't want to support anything Sims 4 related for their despicable DLC policy, I am actually tempted to get the Batuu one, if for nothing else, then to show them that this is the DLC quality I expect from Sims franchise, not things like... well, pretty much anything else they released for the game before.
Field Researcher
#173 Old 28th Sep 2020 at 6:29 PM
Quote: Originally posted by peno
Yeah. As much as I don't want to support anything Sims 4 related for their despicable DLC policy,


What is despicable about it?
Lab Assistant
#174 Old 28th Sep 2020 at 8:07 PM
Look at every single Sims 4 EP and compare them with all previous Sims games EPs and you'll get your answer. Most of Sims 4 EPs are just a fraction of the previous ones and every single one has some content purposely removed only to be sold later in different pack. Seasons, for example, which is the most filled EP for Sims 4 and pretty much comparable with previous Seasons EPs, still had almost all summer activities removed only because they wanted to sell them later in Island Living, which, admittedly, wouldn't have so much content if they didn't move it from Seasons. One can argue that it's similar to Sims 3 where some things, like the surfing station, were removed from EPs and then sold in Store, but, while true, we never saw it to so much extent as we see it in Sims 4. And don't you even let me start about DLC for DLC we saw in Sims 4. We never saw that in any previous Sims games, did we?
Forum Resident
Original Poster
#175 Old 28th Sep 2020 at 10:17 PM
Quote: Originally posted by thesims1depot
And
People are taking my comments out of context. I was specifically talking about these types of heated discussions, where people are trying hard to convince everyone that Sims Iteration X is the "End of the Franchise," or "Signals a Major Downturn,"

It's one thing if people want to talk about why one iteration is their favorite. It's when it gets fanatical to the point where they're now spreading FUD about the franchise in general because of a new iteration. They complain about the "magic" being gone, the game not being the same, etc., so the franchise being dead. But of course the magic is gone; a sequel will never be as magical as the first iteration you played, when everything was fresh, new and different.


Respectably, it still isn't the case for me personally. My criticism of other Sims games in general comes from a place of wanting there to be further improvement and progression to make a better game, not regression. My heavy criticism of TS4 in particular has nothing to do with The Sims losing it's magic. I don't think we've hit its peak where absolutely nothing that comes after will compare. If anything, I'd argue it'd be the perfect time to really innovate the series and make a game that would knock everything out of the park. You know what is dampening that desire for me? Expectations.

With my criticism of TS4 in particular, it has been an era where EA has made it blatantly obvious that they don't give a damn about making you spend hundreds of dollars anymore to get any semblance of what we were able to get previously in dedicated packs centered around that content. Their argument that smaller packs allow them to flesh out the concepts started falling flat when they gave up trying to make the content worthwhile. Every time a new pack is released, there's comments in abundance about how the new content is shallow and only fun for a couple of hours. It's a literal bugfest as well. We've got year old issues at this point that people have repeatedly issued reports about, that ultimately fall on deaf ears unless it's game breaking.

In short, I don't believe The Sims "golden age" is gone per se. I do think that EA has given up trying to make the content worth the price tag. Until they rectify that and provide people the quality content they paid for, and not make a game on a limited foundation that hampers creativity, I don't see any reason to believe otherwise. They have the ability to move the franchise forward positively, it's up to them to do so.

You have been chosen. They will come soon.
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