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#1 Old 16th Aug 2010 at 11:21 PM Last edited by pegasaus : 18th Aug 2010 at 10:42 PM.
Default Welcome to Opera Populaire!
This is a welcome thread, where we will introduce ourselves. As you can see, I made this group just for PotO fans, and I think that this great masterpiece deserves it's own group!

Now about PotO:
I heard for it many years ago, and I knew that it was some kind of dark romance (my favorite type of stories), but I never really had time to see it or read the book. However, in December 2009, I decided to watch it, and after five years after the movie was released, I finally saw it! And now it's my favorite movie and book!

Also I was a little bit sad because I didn't know for it earlier...

But strange thing is that I hate musicals, but my favorite story is a musical


And there is another strange thing: I always enjoyed in mystery, darkness, roses, dreaming, creating, music... I never really had happiness in love and above all, there is no person in my life (even my parents) who didn't at least once told me that I'm a freak...

And then, I find Erik, who is exactly the same as me! And I have found myself in him, and that's why he became my favorite character and my idol & hero!

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Alchemist
#2 Old 17th Aug 2010 at 11:39 AM
Did you know theres a sequel by LLoyd Webber called Love never dies http://www.loveneverdies.com/

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Original Poster
#3 Old 17th Aug 2010 at 12:43 PM
Yes, it's based upon the 'Phantom of Manhattan' by Frederick Forsyth, and I have it on computer, but I haven't still find time to read it (I'm currently re-reading original Leroux version)

Love Never Dies is set 12 years after Christine kissed Phantom, and it's all happening in New York. In NY Christine will hear her Angel of Music once more, but at end raoul wanted to kill Erik with Meg, but they accidentally killed Christine...
And then her body was returned to Paris, and she was buried near her father's mausoleum (watch the last scene in the movie), and there Phantom left her a rose, meaning that his Love Never Died :'(

On the other side, I don't like sequel very much, I don't think that Phantom needs sequel, especially not with children (they have added their son, and I hate children). Also I don't like the fact that everything is moving to America... Europe and Paris were much better places for storytelling...

However, I also got 'Phantom' by Susan Kay, which is a prequel to the PotO, and the story is told from various character's perspectives. There is described Erik's childhood, and how he never got a kiss from his mother, and the first thing that she gave him was a mask to cover his face...

But, in Christine's part of storytelling, it's mentioned that she really loved Erik and had romantic/passionate feelings for him!

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Mostly Harmless
retired moderator
#4 Old 17th Aug 2010 at 11:02 PM
I love the musical, movie and book! They are all really amazing! I was lucky and got to see the musical in London, in the original theater!

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Scholar
Original Poster
#5 Old 18th Aug 2010 at 12:17 PM
Twi - You are soooooooooo lucky! I want to go to London and see it live! Also I would like to go to Paris and see the real Palais Garnier where Phantom lived 140 years ago

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Lab Assistant
#6 Old 18th Aug 2010 at 2:39 PM
I have never seen the movie, musical or book... But I am very interested in the gothic romance theme of The Phantom of the Opera.

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Test Subject
#7 Old 18th Aug 2010 at 6:32 PM
I'm pretty much a fan of the novel, and the novel alone - however, I do like Steve Barton and Sarah Brightman (Crawford is too much into his ego for me). I have issues with the new 'Phantom' musical by Webber, but I guess he's entitled as its a sequel to his own work.

As for the actual fiction its self, as I said, I like the book a LOT more than the musical or film (in fact, I hated the film - Rossum and Butler can't sing! Wilson was perfection, though). Being a fan of the novel, I'm very partial to Raoul's character - he's absolutely adorable and loyal to Christine, and in the musical that's really saying something. She's cavorting (but I use that word loosely) around with the Phantom (as far as I'm concerned, Erik is bound to the book and I don't concider Erik to be in cannon with the musical/film). At least in the book Christine seems a bit more redeemable. In the musical she clearly loves the Phantom, so why string poor Raoul around? Bah.

I can't understand the allure of the Phantom. At all. I guss I'll leave it at that. But I'll take Raoul any day.
Test Subject
#8 Old 18th Aug 2010 at 8:40 PM
I went to see it in new york, bout 4 months ago. It was amazing. But since I was sitting it the way back, When she took his mask off I couldnt get a good look.
Scholar
Original Poster
#9 Old 18th Aug 2010 at 9:25 PM Last edited by pegasaus : 19th Aug 2010 at 11:55 AM.
Pathetique - I invited you cause I saw that you like operas and classical music, so I thought that maybe you enjoy in POTO. But you have at least to see the movie! It's the best movie ever made in my opinion, and it will help you to understand Erik's romance more deeply

Kittenm - I feel sorry for you, but at least you saw it live

magduke -you are also the lucky one! I want to see it live! And to be honest, I also don't like sequel very much, prequel is better.
On the other side, Gerard and Emmy are actors, and they were making a movie, they weren't acting in a musical. Emmy had experience with singing, cause she sang in Manhattan when she was seven, but Gerard had all new music-teaching lessons. He only played in a rock band when he was in high school, but he never had a real music experience.
So, if you look that they didn't even now how to sing, they have done a good job.

I'm currently reading the book, again, but I don't like Raoul. Maybe he loves Christine, but it was Phantom who was her Angel of Music and who helped her to raise her voice again. I mean, in book both of them love Christine, but it was Erik who died because of his passionate obsession! You are also one of the very rare persons that I have met that chose Raoul over Erik.

The main difference between them is this:

Raoul resembles: very gentle, happily-ever-after life, power, money, light, good manners, life in luxury, safety, caring husband, happy family....

Phantom resembles: passion, romance, darkness, adventurous life, mystery, art, living in strange/creepy places, night, good lover, music teacher, and above all, Angel of Music


If I had to chose who will be my friend, or who I will play if I'm playing in musical/theater/opera, I would chose Phantom!

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Test Subject
#10 Old 18th Aug 2010 at 11:01 PM
I think you might have a different opinion if you saw it from my side, only because I see the Phantom's "love" as obsession, and pure obsession. And I don't want to sound like an ego-ist or a child, but I've dealt with obsession in the place of Christine, IE being the 'object'. Frankly, it can be frightening.

Now, I realize fiction is to be viewed from afar, critiqued, enjoyed, etc and etc. But when you've dealt with something as scary as obsession in real life, it can be a bit of a blinder. Sure, she owes the Phantom something for helping to train her voice, but honestly, with her life? Because that is what the Phantom wanted - for her to be his entirely (and this isn't as romantic as fiction makes it out to be). Christine had been trained by him since she was a child (in the musical, soon after she was brought under Giry's care)(in the book not that long), and so she easily would have thought him not as a real person, but the 'Angel of Music'. It may have been a game to her, and of course she might have thought it was her father. Regardless, she never knew him as Erik or the Phantom.

I also see Erik as a sociopath - everything is everyone's fault but his own, and everyone must work on his terms. And something else - a line from the musical really stands out to me "He was bound to love you, when he heard you sing". You must keep in mind that Raoul loved Christine since they were children! He saved her scarf and they were close friends when they were young, in the novel and in the musical.

I can understand people thinking passionate obsession is romantic, but it's not. It's nice to observe from afar or in fiction, but it sucks in real life. It's a big reason why I have issues with the Phantom, or maybe it's why I see it as less than a romance and more of a horror story. And with Christine's actions, but frankly that's how it happens. Her being too niave and letting her self be pulled by both Raoul and Erik is really believable in the novel.

And on the actors: I've seen your argument before, and I respect if, but the whole musical is about MUSIC. I don't like Rossum one bit even as an actor, but Butler has done some great work with Zack Snyder, and Patrick Wilson has great taste in projects, too. So if I look at the main three as actors making a movie instead of characters, well, I still don't like Rossum.

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Alchemist
#11 Old 19th Aug 2010 at 11:54 AM
My mum took me to see it in Melbourne for my 12th birthday, also one of the last performances with Brightman and Crawford in it, though being 12 I didnt appreciate it as much, was too worried about the dress my mother made for me and how horrible I thought it looked hah ha! So really need to see it again after almost 15 years to appreciate it! Have never read the book would love to though!

I think theres the allure of the phantom as he's a mystery and people are always attracted to the mysterious and its just intriguing and exciting! I couldnt stand the guy who played Raol in the 2004 movie as his nose really bugged me and his hair that looked like a grease machine! I have also the version from 1943 and I tend to like that version better but thats because I love old movies!

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Scholar
Original Poster
#12 Old 19th Aug 2010 at 2:48 PM Last edited by pegasaus : 20th Aug 2010 at 8:53 PM.
magduke - yes, his 'love' is an obsession. Believe me, I fully understand him, cause I was obsessed with one girl in the past year (and our story is very similar to PotO, that's why I like it so much). At end, I had to let her to go away, and it hurts a lot, even now when I'm writing this and remembering all that's happened...

Back to PotO: Yes, it's scary in real life, but Erik never had anyone to love or someone to love him. So it's natural that when he felt the love for the first time, he felt it like obsession. He didn't know anything about 'loving someone' until he has fallen in obsession with Christine. He never even had a kiss from his mother... and the only kiss that he got was Christine's passionate kiss at end, when he was at age of 33 (we all know that Erik was older than Christine, 17 or 18 years, and that she was just 15 or 16 when all those things happened to her)

So I feel sorry for him, and yes, it is everyone's fault! They hated him just because of his face! That's HORRIBLE! He was a genius, all that he had in Opera dungeon, he made and created it completely alone!

If Raoul loved her that much, I mean since they were children, he would came for her earlier. Phantom helped her to raise her voice again, and somehow he had the role of her father, too. And in the book there is a scene when Raoul is in wardrobe, and Christine comes to her dressing room, and she said 'Poor Erik, really poor, poor Erik' or something like that. That means that she really had some more deep feelings for him.

Well, Phantom of the Opera IS ranked as horror romance story. Actually it's a gothic romance (stories that are usually put in dark times, often with gothic elements, mostly with no happy end).

By the way, PotO is one of the most popular versions of 'Beauty and the Beast', and B&B was and it's still my favorite tale of all time

Also, it's ok if you don't like Emmy, I respect other's opinions

ekrubynaffit - it's nice from your mother that she took you to see it, but it's a bit unusual to watch it at age of 12... All three books, movie and musical are mostly ranked 'older than 16'. And you should read the book, it's great!

And people are more attracted to mystery, but only from afar, like an affair, but there are very rare people who would change mysterious life for their own (I would change, but even without a change, my life was mysterious since I was born)

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Mostly Harmless
retired moderator
#13 Old 20th Aug 2010 at 5:29 PM
I didn't really care for Raoul much in either the book or the movie. For some reason, even though he is rather creepy, the Phantom is rather alluring and I think I would choose him.

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Lab Assistant
#14 Old 21st Aug 2010 at 1:58 AM
Howdy everyone! :D

I ADORE THIS BOOK.
Then comes the 2004 movie.
Then comes the original London cast's singing, it's wonderful. ((((:

There is a second book?! (scanning earlier posts) Would you suggest it?

Lv26 Magikarp
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Scholar
Original Poster
#15 Old 21st Aug 2010 at 11:43 AM
apocalypticautumn - YES! Book is Adorable! And 2004 movie is my favorite movie of all time! And I didn't see it live, so I can't judge... but I would like to see it

For books, well there are A LOT of books based on this beautiful story, but the most popular are 'Phantom of Manhattan' by Frederick Forsyth (sequel, not very good in my opinion) and 'Phantom' by Susan Kay (prequel, better than the sequel, and it shows each character in more details)

See the first few comments, cause there is also a musical sequel, 'Love Never Dies' (original 'Phantom of Manhattan')

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Test Subject
#16 Old 21st Aug 2010 at 8:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pegasaus
ekrubynaffit - it's nice from your mother that she took you to see it, but it's a bit unusual to watch it at age of 12... All three books, movie and musical are mostly ranked 'older than 16'. And you should read the book, it's great!


I watched it when I was 10. And it was live, I loved it.
Lab Assistant
#17 Old 21st Aug 2010 at 10:30 PM
I read the book when I was about seven - and it terrified me. It was partially to do with the cover - very Leroux Erik, with a hideous skull with glowing yellow eyes on the front (in a kids classic book edition? The adult versions' I've seen are far nicer - so whether Penguin Children's Classics just wanted to give me a dose of childhood trauma or something...) I read it as a horror story and it scared me to death! I was terrified Erik's yellow eyes would be watching me from under my bed, a little the way he stalks Raoul in the book, I guess. We got rid of the book eventually. Cue another seven years later, wave of hormones and a Gerard Butler movie, and I was completely hooked on the costumes, the dark romance, and, erm... Gerik. Part of me wonders whether I grasped it better earlier than later - in reality, guys watching through your mirror would be classed as 'perverts' , not misunderstood tragic heroes I'm way deep into the Lloyd Webber stage versions these days - Crawford ain't my favourite Phantom, though he is the original. I'm an Owen-Jones/ Earl Carpenter Phantom fan. Pegasaus, if you don't mind the terrible video quality , there's a lot of bootleg complete versions of the stage version filmed in London on Youtube. Worth a look just to get the vibe of a live show in London, and I think they have the Hamburg versions there too! I've stumbled across a couple in German (and some of the German Phantoms are darn hot, actually!)
Scholar
Original Poster
#18 Old 22nd Aug 2010 at 11:47 AM Last edited by pegasaus : 25th Aug 2010 at 11:06 AM.
Kittenm - It's really good to see it live in theater, but it's a bit unusual for people 0 - 12 (children) to watch Phantom... I mean, most of them won't really understand passion, obsession, dark romance, murdering others cause they hurt you, dying from love... well at least in my opinion.

haphazard helena - First to say, Welcome!

I already said that I think it's not for children, but on the other side, PotO is a horror romance (and it should stay that way!)
And for the movie, yes, a lot of girls have fallen in love with it just because of Gerard... well I'm a guy, so I was looking at Emmy, and she is beautiful and hot (especially during the Phantom of the Opera duet and Point of No Return)!
And singer/actress who acts Christine (Sierra Boggess) in Love Never Dies is the hottest and the most beautiful Christine that I have ever seen
Also, I would be very happy to wear Erik's mask and watch girls through the other side of mirror... for me, that's romantic, not pervert...

I have seen a couple of videos and shots from live stage, and it was PERFECT!!! ALW has done really good job creating all of it!

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Test Subject
#19 Old 24th Aug 2010 at 5:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ekrubynaffit
Did you know theres a sequel by LLoyd Webber called Love never dies http://www.loveneverdies.com/


I love everything Phantom...except this. When I read Phantom of Manhattan, I swear it was like Forthwyth had no idea who these characters were. Everyone was OCC and the plot itself was terrible. Erik is alive and he goes to America and starts a fair? I mean. flat what? full stop.

I don't think I'll ever see the ALW musical because I don't want my money helping make this new one.

I did see the Kopit/Yeston version recently. I really enjoyed it. I'd read its stage directions and listened to its soundtrack and watched the Charles Dance version of it so I new what to expect but it still entertained me because it is such an interesting take at adaption to the original book.
Scholar
Original Poster
#20 Old 25th Aug 2010 at 11:18 AM
Hi daae92!

About the sequel... well you are right. It is stupid that everything moves to America instead to stay in Europe... they could just change the cities (Paris to London? Paris to Rome? Paris to Vienna?...) And I hate that part with their kid... it's a bit stupid for Phantom to have a son, especially with Christine... if they didn't explain it in the musical (by saying that she returned to Erik once more on the night of their kiss, and then they did woohoo) it would mean that he raped her! Also, all in all, Phantom is a character that does not need a sequel, and he does not need a heir! The next Phantom? It sounds really stupid... I really like Phantom, but if he had a son, it would mean that his son has to haunt an stalk in the Opera, too!

So, I don't like sequel, but prequel is perfect (see earlier posts)

Yes, I have heard for Charles Dance version, it was made as TV series... sadly I never watched it, only some scenes on youtube

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Field Researcher
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25th Aug 2010 at 7:32 PM
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Scholar
Original Poster
#21 Old 25th Aug 2010 at 8:32 PM
ShadowTerra13 - I invited you cause we met on youtube! I'm BlackLightDragon there, and I saw that you favorited a Phantom-sims video because your clothes was part of it, just like mine version of Palais Garnier

As I have already said, I don't like sequel, too.

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Forum Resident
#22 Old 27th Aug 2010 at 2:43 AM Last edited by SimmySue29 : 27th Aug 2010 at 3:01 AM.
I loved the 2004 and (own a copy of) the 1925 (Silent, Black & White) versions of the movie for different reasons. The 2004 version, is visually stunning custumes and sets blew my mind at how well the movie brought the book to true-to-life detail. I love all operas so I thought the singing and Lloyd-Webber's music were superb; by far the 2004 version is my favorite Gothic Romance. But, I like seeing black & white movies and the 1925 version, is wonderful because it is the first time The Phantom of the Opera was brought to the silver screen. And the 1925 movie had good acting and world-class special effects (for that time), this version of the movie has a novelty factor that I love of it being the first time the novel comes to life for the readers to enjoy.
Scholar
Original Poster
#23 Old 27th Aug 2010 at 10:22 AM
Welcome SimmySue29! Glad to see that there are more and more Phantom fans!

And for the truth, I would like to see all versions of PotO, and some of them I have already seen, but my favorite is still 2004 movie

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Test Subject
#24 Old 27th Aug 2010 at 10:11 PM
Wow. Really people? The Phantom was raised, IN A CAGE at a fair. Why would he start his own?
Test Subject
#25 Old 28th Aug 2010 at 12:03 AM
Because ALW has resorted to stealing fanfiction and putting it on stage?

Are we talking about Love Never Dies? I'm so disgusted over it I've taken ALL ALW off my computer, save some Jesus Christ Superstar because Steve Barton is in it.

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