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Field Researcher
#951 Old 5th Sep 2020 at 3:44 AM
I remember people were throwing out ideas a reallllly long time ago on how death would be like. No decision was made. At least, not publicly. But everyone was bringing out other mythical figures related to death. Maybe they won't go that route at all and will have a bit more realism with funerals and all that. Paramedics come to take you away in an ambulance and that's that.

Imagine your para dies in a fire and nothing is left but dust, the paramedics come, sweep up your remains, and off they go.
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Theorist
#952 Old 5th Sep 2020 at 4:11 AM
Quote: Originally posted by kirabook
I remember people were throwing out ideas a reallllly long time ago on how death would be like. No decision was made. At least, not publicly. But everyone was bringing out other mythical figures related to death. Maybe they won't go that route at all and will have a bit more realism with funerals and all that. Paramedics come to take you away in an ambulance and that's that.

Imagine your para dies in a fire and nothing is left but dust, the paramedics come, sweep up your remains, and off they go.


I'm not sure I would like a too realistic death for the Paras. I didn't realise it till now but Grimmie with his grumpy personality and phone/tablet does remove quite a bit of edge from the deaths of Sims.
Not sure I'd have stomach for paramedics (possibly even involving resuscitation attempts) or, even worse, hospital deaths... I hope they find a way to make the death not too realistic/tragic.

Maybe it will be like in the first version of Sims 1? They'll just fall over and die? If they were talking about other mythological psychopomps, then I suppose the no grim reaper thing is a copyright issue? (not wanting to copy Sims too closely?) Also considering the head developer is French-Canadian... Isn't the French equivalent of the Grim Reaper a Lady? That would be cool.

I would be alright with funerals though.
I also hope that there will be at least very basic ghosts at some point, because haunted graveyards are fun.

Avatar by MasterRed
Taking an extended break from Sims stuff. Might be around, might not.
Inventor
#953 Old 5th Sep 2020 at 4:52 AM
EA can't copyright the Grim Reaper. It's a mythological figure and part of the public domain. The only things that can be copyrighted are the actual textures/meshes/animations and coding used to represent him in game and the story, if any.
Theorist
#954 Old 5th Sep 2020 at 11:51 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Naus Allien
EA can't copyright the Grim Reaper. It's a mythological figure and part of the public domain. The only things that can be copyrighted are the actual textures/meshes/animations and coding used to represent him in game and the story, if any.

No I meant that I wonder whether they are trying not to look too similar to the Sims in order to avoid copyright problems.

Avatar by MasterRed
Taking an extended break from Sims stuff. Might be around, might not.
Field Researcher
#955 Old 5th Sep 2020 at 3:24 PM
They can't copyright the Grim Reaper, true. But isn't it a little too on the nose that their life sim also happens to have the Grim Reaper as the bringer of death? If brought up in court in front of a jury, EA could certainly paint Paralives as nothing but copyright infringement. The defense is... almost everyone uses a skeleton with a scythe to represent death itself, what else can you do?

If I recall correctly, back then, we were discussing other mythical creatures of death. A woman was brought up, though I don't remember her name. Father Time was brought up too (who is oddly similar to the Grim Reaper). "Your time is up."
Lab Assistant
#956 Old 5th Sep 2020 at 4:07 PM
I would give my left friggen kidney for this game to be released already.
Theorist
#957 Old 17th Sep 2020 at 2:42 AM
The devs of "People of the Newberry" have so far failed to answer my questions about whether there will be LGBT+ content in their game (if indeed it even is a game...which I'm still not convinced of)
So that's not very promising, though of course questions on youtube can be overlooked, anybody know how to better reach the devs?

Avatar by MasterRed
Taking an extended break from Sims stuff. Might be around, might not.
Field Researcher
#958 Old 18th Sep 2020 at 1:53 PM
At this point, I would put People of the Newberry on the furthest back burner you have. I still don't think it's a legitimate game compared to the other few that have announced themselves.
Until that dude presents something he actually made himself, don't trust it. If they are making it hard for people to get in touch with them, that's another bad sign for a small indie imo. Last I heard they were active in their discord.
Theorist
#959 Old 18th Sep 2020 at 4:40 PM Last edited by Orphalesion : 18th Sep 2020 at 5:39 PM.
Honestly I have no interest at all in People of the Newberry (those graphics are not my taste), I just don't like the idea of a Life Simulation being developed without the option of have LGBT+ characters in it, so I want to know their stance on that.

Edit: Uh people, are you sure you read my message correctly? I'm saying having the option for LGBT+ characters is a necessary feature for a Life Simulation game. I'm gay I want to have the option to have gay characters.

Avatar by MasterRed
Taking an extended break from Sims stuff. Might be around, might not.
Mad Poster
#960 Old 19th Sep 2020 at 1:43 AM
Clarify what LGBT+ you mean by that? As in themed clothing and items? I doubt they would just flagged off romantic interactions, but it's quite a possibly if creator isn't necessary fond of them.

P.S. Sorry for my bad english.
Lab Assistant
#961 Old 19th Sep 2020 at 7:37 PM
Default Ia+
Quote: Originally posted by SneakyWingPhoenix
Clarify what LGBT+ you mean by that? As in themed clothing and items? I doubt they would just flagged off romantic interactions, but it's quite a possibly if creator isn't necessary fond of them.


Speculation is that if People of Newberry is actually a real thing, then even if the creator of it wants to put the ability to have LGBTQIA+ characters in the game, they cant as the Russian government is violently anti gay rights and "homosexual propaganda" gan get you flung in jail. And obviously the previous poster means LGBTQIA+ characters.
Mad Poster
#962 Old 19th Sep 2020 at 10:04 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Orphalesion
Honestly I have no interest at all in People of the Newberry (those graphics are not my taste), I just don't like the idea of a Life Simulation being developed without the option of have LGBT+ characters in it, so I want to know their stance on that.

Edit: Uh people, are you sure you read my message correctly? I'm saying having the option for LGBT+ characters is a necessary feature for a Life Simulation game. I'm gay I want to have the option to have gay characters.


It probably has nothing to do with whether they should or shouldn't that is a bit off-putting to the disagree-rs. It could be your stance on the fact that you don't want to support this developer, and yet...they sure as heck better support you. (If that is what you wrote this developer, then I am not surprised that they didn't message you back. They probably thought you were just being a 'pearl clutching busy body'.)

But I do agree, being inclusive is a wonderful thing, and I have no doubts that it would prove fruitful to their overall business model. However, that is for them to decide. It's their baby, and it's their game. If we don't like their choices, well...we have the ultimate power to vote with our wallets.

♥ }i{ Monarch of the Receptacle Refugees }i{ ♥
One horse disagreer of the Apocalypse
#963 Old 20th Sep 2020 at 10:33 AM
Still a bit disappointed by the confirmation that Paralives will, like The Sims, keep everything a lighthearted "escape". Why is it the designers who are inspired to develop games about normal people are also the ones who like things lighthearted and safe? I wish the GTA designers would do a people sim! Well, maybe not that far lol.

"You can do refraction by raymarching through the depth buffer" (c. Reddeyfish 2017)
Scholar
#964 Old 20th Sep 2020 at 11:13 AM
I wish that sim devs would consider the darker player styles and add true customization for darker stories. It's completely possible to add whatever customization you can dream up, and the audience for it is there - I mean Sims 1 and 2 were proper dark in certain areas and people loved that stuff, so I don't get why devs think they need to babysit their audience?

But we'll see what Paralives end up being, it's not even half finished yet. Just give me my sad lifesim so I make the simpeople happy or sad whatever fits my mood, please.

So be it. Move. ~Jason Bourne
Simblr
Lab Assistant
#965 Old 21st Sep 2020 at 1:08 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Inge Jones
Still a bit disappointed by the confirmation that Paralives will, like The Sims, keep everything a lighthearted "escape". Why is it the designers who are inspired to develop games about normal people are also the ones who like things lighthearted and safe? I wish the GTA designers would do a people sim! Well, maybe not that far lol.

I've always wished I could play the Godfather but in a Sims game. Yeah maybe I wanna go and extort a business, then cook my damn dinner.
Mad Poster
#966 Old 21st Sep 2020 at 2:09 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Inge Jones
Still a bit disappointed by the confirmation that Paralives will, like The Sims, keep everything a lighthearted "escape". Why is it the designers who are inspired to develop games about normal people are also the ones who like things lighthearted and safe? I wish the GTA designers would do a people sim! Well, maybe not that far lol.

I seeo two reasons: people go overtime with their ideas if the game is promised to be dark side (oh cool! I better hope you can spill someone's guts and brains) and just to keep the dark retaining. Still think there should be a fine line to making it dark. Though, I do not think it will end being as a safe place as TS4 is known for.

P.S. Sorry for my bad english.
Field Researcher
#967 Old 23rd Sep 2020 at 1:35 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Inge Jones
Still a bit disappointed by the confirmation that Paralives will, like The Sims, keep everything a lighthearted "escape". Why is it the designers who are inspired to develop games about normal people are also the ones who like things lighthearted and safe? I wish the GTA designers would do a people sim! Well, maybe not that far lol.


Because normal people don't like "dark content". They want lighthearted escapist entertainment.
Scholar
#968 Old 23rd Sep 2020 at 2:25 PM
Quote: Originally posted by thesims1depot
Because normal people don't like "dark content". They want lighthearted escapist entertainment.

Wrong, they think they want lighthearted entertainment, in reality most people enjoy and benefit from free satisfying simulation game therapy. Enacting dark scenarios and deal with them in the game in a funny/fantastical/outlandish way helps you deal with real life emotions and situations, or even fears. That's why Sims 1 and 2 felt so much more satisfying to me, because the dark undercurrent had a real purpose. And then I'm not even counting the actual satisfaction of working for a happy sim game. Failstates were invented for a reason - any story needs conflict otherwise you might aswell just read the alphabet out loud.

So be it. Move. ~Jason Bourne
Simblr
Field Researcher
#969 Old 23rd Sep 2020 at 2:44 PM
Quote: Originally posted by thesims1depot
Because normal people don't like "dark content". They want lighthearted escapist entertainment.


That’s what the hallmark channel is and it’s not exactly killing it in the ratings department like “dark content” is. Even the hypersexualized drama on kardashians draws a bigger crowd than the lighthearted escapist happy ending stories.
Field Researcher
#970 Old 23rd Sep 2020 at 4:13 PM
Quote: Originally posted by drake_mccarty
That’s what the hallmark channel is and it’s not exactly killing it in the ratings department like “dark content” is. Even the hypersexualized drama on kardashians draws a bigger crowd than the lighthearted escapist happy ending stories.


Why do you think the opposite of dark content is the Hallmark channel? Are there no shades in between dark content and everything else?

BTW, the reason why the Kardashians draw big crowds is that we're living in a trashy era where people are taught to prefer this type of content over everything else. So, of course, today, that type of show would draw huge crowds. But 20, 30 years ago, 40 years ago TV events on shows like I Love Lucy drew 10x the amount of viewers than any episode of Keeping Up with the Kardashians. Show me any episode of KUWTK that matched the viewership of Lucy Ricardo giving birth, the finale of Cheers and Seinfeld or Rhoda Morgenstern getting married, and then we'll talk.
Field Researcher
#971 Old 23rd Sep 2020 at 4:21 PM Last edited by thesims1depot : 23rd Sep 2020 at 4:39 PM.
Quote: Originally posted by Apsalar
Wrong, they think they want lighthearted entertainment, in reality most people enjoy and benefit from free satisfying simulation game therapy. Enacting dark scenarios and deal with them in the game in a funny/fantastical/outlandish way helps you deal with real life emotions and situations, or even fears. That's why Sims 1 and 2 felt so much more satisfying to me, because the dark undercurrent had a real purpose. And then I'm not even counting the actual satisfaction of working for a happy sim game. Failstates were invented for a reason - any story needs conflict otherwise you might aswell just read the alphabet out loud.


If people historically have always wanted their entertainment to be escapist, you can't argue against their mindset. When you start arguing about what people are thinking and feeling with this notion that you know what they "really" want and feel, you're using "armchair psychology." You're using psychology to invalidate their experiences, based on this idea that you have some superior insight into their thoughts and feelings.

To keep this thread from derailing too far, let's go back to the very first Sims as an example. When the game introduced Guinea Pig Disease, players were so upset and outraged over it that it actually made mainstream news (the BBC, The New York Times): http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/746700.stm

The backlash was so bad that Maxis actually had to update the game so GPD wouldn't be as lethal. Why were players upset? Because, according to you, they only thought this aspect of the game was upsetting and really wanted it? Or, like most people, they wanted the game to be this fun, escapist thing where they didn't have to deal with the real world?

The point is that you can feel however you like about people who don't want darkness in their entertainment. However, you can't argue that this is what everyone secretly wants and enjoys. It's not. What's being called "dark" entertainment (or, to use a fancier term, nihilistic content) is a niche thing that only appeals to a niche audience. It's not mainstream and it's not what the average person wants, which is why when studios develop content for a broad audience, they will never include nihilistic content.
Field Researcher
#972 Old 23rd Sep 2020 at 4:48 PM
I was going to ask what people really mean by "dark content", but if it's just Sims 1 or Sims 2, is it really that "dark"? I'm sure when they were in development, despite all the adult humor and jokes, people still considered that "lighthearted". Maybe it would do well for the devs to specify what they mean.

I think what they're not going to do is add in murder sprees and things in that nature (GTA style) and be more similar to Sims 1/Sims 2. I think for most people on the team right now, TS2 was their favorite Sims iteration so there's that? I don't think they're going to go full "Hurr hurr, the toilet is talking!" on us except maybe when a Para is drunk/tipsy (which is a confirmed feature)

So if we were to make a list of what is "dark" and what is "light", what would that look like?

"Strippers" popping out of cakes or potentially burning up inside, imo, is considered "light" for example.
Running over pedestrians walking along the side of the road (on purpose) is dark while getting into a car accident in general is "light".
A mass shooting is dark no matter which way you slice it.
Poisoning someone's food on accident or on purpose, I would probably consider "light"
Robberies, buglaries, mugging, I think is "light"
Getting into a slapping/fist fight, light imo.
Most sexual misconduct (other than adultery) I think is too dark. And I mean real misconduct, jail worthy stuff.
Spanking a child, light.
Runaways, light.

Uh.... can't think of much else. I'm not very creative I guess. I think they can still be "lighthearted", like "Have fun as you poison the party punch bowl with intense laxatives and wowo drugs"

Also, they just released a disabilities survey. If you have any, consider filling it out for them. I thought they'd hold off on this until post release, but I guess they've changed their mind! That's awesome.
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1...m?usp=send_form
Field Researcher
#973 Old 23rd Sep 2020 at 5:49 PM
Quote: Originally posted by thesims1depot
Why do you think the opposite of dark content is the Hallmark channel? Are there no shades in between dark content and everything else?

BTW, the reason why the Kardashians draw big crowds is that we're living in a trashy era where people are taught to prefer this type of content over everything else. So, of course, today, that type of show would draw huge crowds. But 20, 30 years ago, 40 years ago TV events on shows like I Love Lucy drew 10x the amount of viewers than any episode of Keeping Up with the Kardashians. Show me any episode of KUWTK that matched the viewership of Lucy Ricardo giving birth, the finale of Cheers and Seinfeld or Rhoda Morgenstern getting married, and then we'll talk.


You said normal people want lighthearted escapist content and not “dark content” so naturally I assumed you meant the hallmark channel since it’s only lighthearted happy ending stories. Would you rather I use the up channel (stands for uplifting lol)? It’s more or less the same crap.

Also I don’t really care what happened on TV 40 years ago. I’m sure you can buy a box set of those old TV classics on a rack in Cracker Barrel if you’re dying to see them.
Instructor
#974 Old 23rd Sep 2020 at 8:22 PM
Nobody's "normal." What one person thinks is normal another doesn't. As for Dark, I wouldn't like "Wicked Whims" as part of the normal game, that's dark to me but wouldn't mind a murder story element sometimes, even burglars, even though for some that would be darker. It takes all sorts to make a Sim game so I hope modders keep creating things that I don't personally want but others do.

BTW: In the UK a woman's just got 10 months in jail today for putting a little bit of cleaning fluid in her supervisor's coffee and that's dark also to me. Definitely not a "prank" or normal behaviour.
Scholar
#975 Old 23rd Sep 2020 at 10:03 PM
Quote: Originally posted by thesims1depot
If people historically have always wanted their entertainment to be escapist, you can't argue against their mindset. When you start arguing about what people are thinking and feeling with this notion that you know what they "really" want and feel, you're using "armchair psychology." You're using psychology to invalidate their experiences, based on this idea that you have some superior insight into their thoughts and feelings.

To keep this thread from derailing too far, let's go back to the very first Sims as an example. When the game introduced Guinea Pig Disease, players were so upset and outraged over it that it actually made mainstream news (the BBC, The New York Times): http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/746700.stm

The backlash was so bad that Maxis actually had to update the game so GPD wouldn't be as lethal. Why were players upset? Because, according to you, they only thought this aspect of the game was upsetting and really wanted it? Or, like most people, they wanted the game to be this fun, escapist thing where they didn't have to deal with the real world?

The point is that you can feel however you like about people who don't want darkness in their entertainment. However, you can't argue that this is what everyone secretly wants and enjoys. It's not. What's being called "dark" entertainment (or, to use a fancier term, nihilistic content) is a niche thing that only appeals to a niche audience. It's not mainstream and it's not what the average person wants, which is why when studios develop content for a broad audience, they will never include nihilistic content.

No, I was talking about the use of the word 'lighthearted' not 'escapist' - ofcourse people want to escape - but my point is that that doesn't mean it needs to be all happy rainbows everywhere for it to be 'escapist' - in fact you need conflict and that applies to ALL storytelling - even for 3 year olds. Conflict is often misrepresented as 'dark' when in fact it's what you make it out to be. Take Brandi Broke in Sims 2 for instance - that's a dark story that the simmer playing has the opportunity to make 'lighthearted' because of the outcome of the family overcoming the conflict of hardship. The point is that the choice is there for the player to enact a really dark story of the family not making it and that the game allows for that - it doesn't mean that players have to enact that path - but the conflict of the possible bad outcome needs to be present, otherwise the game is boring and shallow. That's just one single example - you can go as far as you want with the game development, but the point is that you don't need to go that far for the conflict to give depth to the game. In Sims 2 the mechanics makes the game hard, but also you feel for the sims going through it because their personalities are noticeable, and working for a good outcome gives the game meaning.

So be it. Move. ~Jason Bourne
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