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Test Subject
Original Poster
#1 Old 31st Jul 2011 at 12:28 PM
Model import issue
well, I've been trying to import a fanmade Krystal (Starfox Adventures) model into the Sims 3 as a statue, I've set up its pose with DAZ Studio 4, then saved it to a .obj file, I imported the model as a single mesh in 3DSMax just fine, like in this pic but when I try to open the mesh in milkshape it just won't load the textures properly, they show up as white surface except for the parts that don't use a texture, just a solid color.

I have been reading EllaCharm3d's tutorial on how to mesh but since he/she is modifying a model and not putting a brand new one into the game I don't know well what to do.

help would be much appreciated, ask me any questions you need to ask if there's any necessary information I have not given.
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Alchemist
#2 Old 31st Jul 2011 at 1:54 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Tazze
well, I've been trying to import a fanmade Krystal (Starfox Adventures) model into the Sims 3 as a statue, I've set up its pose with DAZ Studio 4, then saved it to a .obj file, I imported the model as a single mesh in 3DSMax just fine, like in this pic but when I try to open the mesh in milkshape it just won't load the textures properly, they show up as white surface except for the parts that don't use a texture, just a solid color.

I have been reading EllaCharm3d's tutorial on how to mesh but since he/she is modifying a model and not putting a brand new one into the game I don't know well what to do.

help would be much appreciated, ask me any questions you need to ask if there's any necessary information I have not given.
Have you tried right-mouse clicking in the blue view window (the one on the bottom right hand side) and selecting "Textured" instead of wire frame?

Putting a new item into the game requires essentially the same process whether you're starting with an EA model as the base for your new item or creating your own brand new model. You'll still need to clone an EA item to use to overwrite with your item. Then you bring your .obj into Milkshape with the EA item, delete the EA model, make sure your model is in the same place on the Groups list as the EA one was in, assign joint(s), and export that to overwrite the original EA item.

That mesh you're showing is extremely high poly...you might want to consider lowering the poly on it especially if you're planning on sharing it with other people.
Test Subject
Original Poster
#3 Old 31st Jul 2011 at 2:29 PM
it IS on textured mode, the model uses separate jpg files for the body, head, ears and the tiara's textures, the nose, lips and other parts don't use a texture file and just use a solid color instead, these parts show up colored in textured mode, every part which needs a texture file shows up completely white, also, I understand there are normally two groups, group 00 and group 01, my mesh should be in group 01 if I recall correctly, problem is, even when I'm able to set the textures again (it doesn't open the file with the textures showing but I can browse for the textures on the materials tab and set them up again) and I try to use the regroup function, the program uses a single material for all the items I have regrouped (each group uses its own material, and the mesh has 30 groups total), which completely messes it up (e.g. regrouping all groups that form the mesh's head can cause all the head to use the lips' color)
Alchemist
#4 Old 31st Jul 2011 at 3:10 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Tazze
it IS on textured mode, the model uses separate jpg files for the body, head, ears and the tiara's textures, the nose, lips and other parts don't use a texture file and just use a solid color instead, these parts show up colored in textured mode, every part which needs a texture file shows up completely white, also, I understand there are normally two groups, group 00 and group 01, my mesh should be in group 01 if I recall correctly, problem is, even when I'm able to set the textures again (it doesn't open the file with the textures showing but I can browse for the textures on the materials tab and set them up again) and I try to use the regroup function, the program uses a single material for all the items I have regrouped (each group uses its own material, and the mesh has 30 groups total), which completely messes it up (e.g. regrouping all groups that form the mesh's head can cause all the head to use the lips' color)
Often MS will open a .obj showing all white and then you have to go to the Materials tab, add the material in, and then assign it to the group you want it to be applied to. It sounds like when you're assigning your textures they *are* showing on your object...right?

Different EA objects have different numbers of groups and, while the shadow group is usually 00 and the mesh 01, they aren't always in that order. You have to look at each object to know where on the list your new mesh should go.

The way EA's S3 objects are designed objects have a single IMG that they get their texture from in game. You will have to make your object the same way. In order for you to regroup your groups, and still have the right texture showing on each part of your mesh, you need to make a new IMG that has all the textures you want on it and map each group to that single IMG. If you have parts of your object that are just solid color you should probably consider making those recolorable while keeping the face parts etc. on an overlay that isn't recolorable.
Test Subject
Original Poster
#5 Old 31st Jul 2011 at 4:02 PM
so I need to put all the textures in one file, then make a new UV map?
if that is correct, could you please give me a link to some tutorials that can show me how? my modeling and skinning knowledge is very basic, the model and textures aren't even mine.
thank you for all the help that you're giving me anyway.
Alchemist
#6 Old 31st Jul 2011 at 4:24 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Tazze
so I need to put all the textures in one file, then make a new UV map?
if that is correct, could you please give me a link to some tutorials that can show me how? my modeling and skinning knowledge is very basic, the model and textures aren't even mine.
thank you for all the help that you're giving me anyway.
All the textures that you want to show up on your object need to be placed on a single .dds and then your object needs to be mapped so that it matches the new .dds. If you're interested in a tutorial that teaches you to map with Milkshape I've written one that's fairly easy. You can download it if this is the tutorial topic you're asking for. If I've misunderstood you, and this isn't what you're wanting, could you be more specific about what kind of tutorial you need?

http://jaue.com/om/OM_TextureMappingwithMilkshape.rar
Test Subject
Original Poster
#7 Old 31st Jul 2011 at 6:38 PM
to regroup all the body parts I need the body to be a single material, that means making a new dds file containing all the textures (head, body, gold reflection, silver reflection and tail) and show milkshape how to apply the texture to the model, I need to know how I must place the textures in the dds and in the model
EDIT: now that I see the tutorial it seems that it's just what I needed (simple compared to the job that awaits me, but useful, thank you very much)
Alchemist
#8 Old 31st Jul 2011 at 7:48 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Tazze
to regroup all the body parts I need the body to be a single material, that means making a new dds file containing all the textures (head, body, gold reflection, silver reflection and tail) and show milkshape how to apply the texture to the model, I need to know how I must place the textures in the dds and in the model
EDIT: now that I see the tutorial it seems that it's just what I needed (simple compared to the job that awaits me, but useful, thank you very much)
Np about tutorial...if you have questions about it or about your project after you've completed the tutorial post again
Sockpuppet
#9 Old 31st Jul 2011 at 10:48 PM
just dont regroup the bodyparts into one meshgroup
You wont be able to assigne diffrent material settings(reflection etc) or shaders to them later.
Alchemist
#10 Old 1st Aug 2011 at 1:29 AM
If this is supposed to go into the game overwriting a statue it can only have the same number of groups as a statue has. This means that if the original object has 30 groups there's gonna have to be a lotta regrouping goin on for it to work. At the most you might find an object with 2 groups besides the shadow...still going to require a lot of regrouping for it to go in-game. That is unless you know a way for S3PE or tsrw to add extra groups to an object and have it work in-game?
Sockpuppet
#11 Old 1st Aug 2011 at 4:08 AM
i should have said not all the bodyparts into one meshgroup, you can regroup the parts wich you want to use the same material or shader settings.
I usual work with TSRW wich lets you copy meshgroups real easy, i dont know how this works with s3PE.
Alchemist
#12 Old 1st Aug 2011 at 4:49 AM
Quote: Originally posted by BloomsBase
i should have said not all the bodyparts into one meshgroup, you can regroup the parts wich you want to use the same material or shader settings.
I usual work with TSRW wich lets you copy meshgroups real easy, i dont know how this works with s3PE.
The way it works with S3PE is that if an object has one group for the mesh and another for the shadow you're gonna have to have your mesh all in one group to replace the EA mesh group. If the EA object has two groups then you need to make your mesh so it has two groups to replace them. That's what your final mesh needs to be like before it can go in-game. Are you saying tsrw is different and allows you to overwrite an EA mesh with more groups than it had to begin with?
Test Subject
Original Poster
#13 Old 1st Aug 2011 at 12:07 PM Last edited by Tazze : 1st Aug 2011 at 3:45 PM.
hello again orangemittens, I have regrouped absolutely ALL groups into a single one with a single texture.

Thank you for your tutorial, I couldn't have done it without it, I'll see if I can get the model finally working in game, I'll post a screenshot once I finish :P
Sockpuppet
#14 Old 1st Aug 2011 at 1:12 PM
Quote: Originally posted by orangemittens
Are you saying tsrw is different and allows you to overwrite an EA mesh with more groups than it had to begin with?


Yes, you can add or remove as many as desired.
Each can have its own shader and MTNF settings, it is even possible to link each meshgroup to its own texture.
But you can only have one as recolor file.
One horse disagreer of the Apocalypse
#15 Old 1st Aug 2011 at 1:23 PM
Yes, there are some quirks still and it can go a bit wrong, but in principle the option is there.

"You can do refraction by raymarching through the depth buffer" (c. Reddeyfish 2017)
Test Subject
Original Poster
#16 Old 1st Aug 2011 at 3:45 PM Last edited by Tazze : 1st Aug 2011 at 6:44 PM.
I've tried it ingame but somehow the alpha channel is messing up the model, that means I can see the inside part of the model, even if I tell Photoshop I want to export the texture with a RGB palette, 4 bpp and without alpha the channel is still there.

Also, further testing reveals a problem with the model's illumination, I guess it's another problem with the alpha channel, since changing the specular has no effect

EDIT: I think it might not be the alpha, I've used a 256 color texture that only had one channel (index) and it still happened, any idea?
Alchemist
#17 Old 2nd Aug 2011 at 12:08 AM
Quote: Originally posted by BloomsBase
But you can only have one as recolor file.
Yes...Atavera walked me through adding a new group using S3PE and it had the same problem...if it isn't going to be recolorable anyway, for most objects, you're better off using an overlay/stencil type of scheme, at least imo.

Tazze, what is your clone and could you show the img's you're importing into your package?
Sockpuppet
#18 Old 2nd Aug 2011 at 1:09 AM
I mean, each meshgroup is recolorable if you link them properly but you can choose not to and link it to a individual non recolorable texture file.
If you duplicate the meshgroup, you auto duplicate the shader and the MTNF settings(wich includes the links to the texture files)

@Tazze, you must stick to the DDS formats, most likly DXT1 noalpha unless its a 4 color object you cloned(Then the multiplier and the mask become DXT5interpolatedalpha)
A overlay(and stencils) is always DXT5interpolatedalpha while the specular is always DXTnoalpha
Alchemist
#19 Old 2nd Aug 2011 at 2:15 AM
Quote: Originally posted by BloomsBase
...while the specular is always DXTnoalpha
Unless things have changed recently, the specular should be a DDS DXT5 interpolated alpha. Usually people use an all black alpha for the specular unless you want some, or all, of the object to have some shininess. An all white specular will make your object very shiny.

Quote: Originally posted by BloomsBase
I mean, each meshgroup is recolorable if you link them properly
Base, let me ask you this...if each mesh group you're adding this way is recolorable how many recolorable channels can you get on an object when it's in-game?
Sockpuppet
#20 Old 2nd Aug 2011 at 8:21 AM
Quote: Originally posted by orangemittens
Unless things have changed recently, the specular should be a DDS DXT5 interpolated alpha. Usually people use an all black alpha for the specular unless you want some, or all, of the object to have some shininess. An all white specular will make your object very shiny.

Base, let me ask you this...if each mesh group you're adding this way is recolorable how many recolorable channels can you get on an object when it's in-game?



srry, only clothing and vehicles(and some other objects) use a DXT1noalpha specular
Most are indeed DXT5...

Watever ammount of meshgrouyps you have you will only have one setup for recoloring.
Some objects have a 4 recolor option while most just have 3 channels to recolor.
Test Subject
Original Poster
#21 Old 2nd Aug 2011 at 10:27 AM
@orangemittens I've cloned the Phillippe of Anzac statue for this pack, these are the IMGs
first there're three small IMGs, I guess it's for the shadow, I don't know, I didn't change them

next, the one I assume is the main texture (there's no thumbnail because of the epic dimensions of the texture, but the pic is online)
the ones I assume are the specular (there are two, I'm not sure of what they do)
and the partmask
@BloomsBase I've tried both DXT5 and DXT1 (both no alpha and 1 bit alpha), I've tried several formats but the problem is always there.
Alchemist
#22 Old 2nd Aug 2011 at 12:20 PM
You can safely ignore the little grey img's. The one named sculptureFloorParis_0x7a2d7bf82592a594 looks like a normal map, the one with three different colors is your mask, and the one that is all in greys is your multiplier. The one that is sort of black and white looking is your specular. You probably aren't going to need a functional normal map for your object so you won't need to worry about making one for your object. Your specular should be a DDS DXT5 with an alpha. You want to make the .dds all black and then put an alpha on it. Your object is going to be shiny if you use whites on the specular. Also, the .dds image sizes need to be in multiples of 128. So sizes which are ok are 128, 256, 512, and 1024. You probably don't want to get much larger than 1024 for your object since that's fairly large and your object should map easily onto a 512 or a 1024 sized img.

Base, it's the same using s3pe...we can create objects with up to 4 recolorable channels also. I was misunderstanding you...I thought you were saying you could add as many groups as you want and have each be recolorable. What you're saying about recolorability of objects made with tsrw is essentially what can also be done with s3pe.
Test Subject
Original Poster
#23 Old 2nd Aug 2011 at 1:38 PM
I've removed the mask since the model is not supposed to be recolorable, and the normal map, I've repacked the textures with reduced dimensions (1024x1024) and in RGBA mode DXT5, I've also used a black specular with the same config, but the problem is still there
Sockpuppet
#24 Old 2nd Aug 2011 at 3:02 PM
Upload the file?
If you are sure the textures are ok(on both lods) it then should be ok....
Only other error that might cause this is underweighted bones but dont think the mesh is assigned is it?


@OM
You can add as much meshgroups as you like but if you want to recolor them you have to link them to the original recolor textures.
You can however use more meshgroups and change the shader of specific meshparts
Test Subject
Original Poster
#25 Old 2nd Aug 2011 at 6:43 PM
well, if this helps, the model shows exactly the same way in Milkshape when "Draw Backfaces" isn't checked, like in this pic

however, I can fix it checking it

In blender it initially shows the same way, however, rendering the model makes it show ok.

In 3DS Max, it shows it wrong all the time unless your viewport is configured to show "consistent colors"

And sorry but I can't post the model and textures here since the model is NUDE and therefore, it's adult content, and as the rules clearly state, I can't put a link to it.
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