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Mad Poster
#26 Old 11th Jul 2009 at 3:00 PM
There's necrophilia in the Sims3, and it hasn't raised people in arms about it. I am sure religion won't either as long as they present it conceptually.
Lab Assistant
#27 Old 11th Jul 2009 at 3:09 PM
Does woohooing with a ghost count as necrophilia? My dictionary says corpses not dead or ghosts.
In any case, resurrected ghosts are just transparent sims. No big difference.

On Topic: I don't think religion has it's place in Sims, I just don't see a House or Worship type community lot that you may or may not have to visit every day/week/month ect. It's seems unnecessary, especially with all the extra effort to make sure it isn't offensive.
Mad Poster
#28 Old 11th Jul 2009 at 3:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2rki3i
Does woohooing with a ghost count as necrophilia? My dictionary says corpses not dead or ghosts.
In any case, resurrected ghosts are just transparent sims. No big difference.

On Topic: I don't think religion has it's place in Sims, I just don't see a House or Worship type community lot that you may or may not have to visit every day/week/month ect. It's seems unnecessary, especially with all the extra effort to make sure it isn't offensive.


Sorry, they're still screwing with the dead, be them corpses, ghosts, or resurrected ghosts. That's conceptually represented necrophilia for you. They could make religion same way. As long as the religion doesn't have a name and descriptive rituals it won't be offensive. It will be just that religion and religious books, pretty much like cooks and cook books. If religion as a concept offends you, tough luck, you need to move to another planet.
transmogrified
retired moderator
#29 Old 11th Jul 2009 at 3:18 PM
So religion in The Sims 3 would be reading a book and donating to charity? Can't the Sims already do those two things? Have your Sims worship Raymundo.
Mad Poster
#30 Old 11th Jul 2009 at 3:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mangaroo
So religion in The Sims 3 would be reading a book and donating to charity? Can't the Sims already do those two things? Have your Sims worship Raymundo.


The sims in my game worship Grant the Farmer and Where is Bella. The only problem is they don't have a spirituality skill. Also, I think only the nice and evil trait can donate to charities and we all know the world is not made up only of nice and evil traits sims.
Lab Assistant
#31 Old 11th Jul 2009 at 3:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by crocobaura
Sorry, they're still screwing with the dead, be them corpses, ghosts, or resurrected ghosts. That's conceptually represented necrophilia for you.

Sorry, English isn't my first language. I was just a bit confused.
I'm not against the concept of religion, and if they put it in game I wouldn't complain or anything. IF done well it could be potentially quite a great thing for the game, but I don't see EA taking that potential risk that it could backfire in their faces.
Maybe they could do religions as traits, and have accompying books to flesh out the background of these sim religons. It's doable.
Theorist
#32 Old 11th Jul 2009 at 4:20 PM
I think a spiritual aspect would be nice. I have no interest in crypids, whatever, but they were in Sims 2. I just chose not to use them.
Why not have the options for churches, mosques, whatever? Maybe we'd have some sims who want to follow the path of Guru or high priestess or something.

I don't see why people get offended when anyone brings up religion. No one is forcing anything on you. No one is asking you to bang a gong for Jesus or Buddha. But maybe some people might like to have it in the game.

"If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went." Will Rogers
Instructor
#33 Old 11th Jul 2009 at 4:31 PM
This thread in a ways has a high number of merits. It is not a stupid idea, unless of course you think the issue of religion is itself stupid.

I have read many people suggesting that religion has no place in a game. In a way I agree with them. Real world religion does not have a place in any game. However, there are many games which utilise religion in their games without real religion this include MMORGS and also stratergy games. As long as they do not cite real world religion the players of these games seem to accept them.

The Sims is meant to be a simulation of real life, and as indicated earlier there are religious elements in other games in the Sim family. Real people can choose to believe in religion or not so why cna the sims not. I am sure there are ways to incorporate this into the game to add flavour. It could also result in new interesting traits and types of interactions. In terms of the building. They could have a building which is not like any existing places of worship, or there could be the number of different styles of building.

Another thing to bear in mind is there is already one religious site in the game, the recreation of stone henge. This place also has the long believed fertility powers of that location. So to an extent there is already an element of that in the game anyway. So why not add more? It is possible and there are sucessful games of a similar that do allow for this.
Lab Assistant
Original Poster
#34 Old 11th Jul 2009 at 4:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by haylz320
Seriously, how could anyone POSSIBLY THINK that you could mass-market a game dealing with religion? It's impossible.


I'm just taking a look at my own games:

Civilization IV (seven real-world religions represented with buildings)
Command & Conquer (lots of Old Testament references)
Age of Empire series
Empire Earth
Colonization
Tropico
SimCity 4 (as mentioned)

Almost all games which simulate people, also simulate religion as a more or less prominent part of society.

But The Sims is of course different. The Sims does not aim to re-create a special culture, nation and civilization.

I don't think that religion - in the sense of worship of one or many divine beings - should be in the game.

However, there should be locations and ceremonies for the great events in Sims' lives. Even non-believers need these. We could look at atheist organizations to get inspired.
Scholar
#35 Old 11th Jul 2009 at 4:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gangreless
Did you really just equate not being religious to not having democracy?


No. The poster stated that because some people can live their lives without religion then religion is not needed at all (Or at least that's how I understood him/her/it). If that's the case then there are some people who lived and still live good lives without democracy, computers, etc. so should we get rid of these things altogether.

I would like a faith in the game. I don't care if it's real-life based, made up. Centered around Lamas or the player. I just find that it gives the game a whole new perceptive. If they can add Christmas to the Sims 2 then why not a make believe faith based on the true-ness of the Great Lama or Spode?
Test Subject
#36 Old 11th Jul 2009 at 5:22 PM
I think religion could be a nice concept, but it'd be hard for the Sims creators to properly represent the various religions.
Which would they include? Would any branches of the religions be included? etc.
There seem to be so many different forms of certain religions (and just religions in general) that it'd be interesting to see how they'd pick and choose.
Lab Assistant
#37 Old 11th Jul 2009 at 6:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angstrom
Here is an excellent interview with MJ Chun, one of the Sims producer.

http://fidgit.com/archives/2009/06/..._a_producer.php

Chun dodges the question why there is no religion in TS3.

Here is a further comment.

http://flashofsteel.com/index.php/2...swer-that-isnt/

The most obvious reason why religion is not in The Sims Series, is because of its aim to be culturally neutral. If the Sunset Valley had a church, it would also need a synagogue, a mosque, a stupa and so on. Balancing skin colors and name origins to avoid a white Anglo-Saxon majority is difficult enough.

Also, any gameplay difference between two religions could be interpreted as if one was "better" or "worse" than another.

Another more speculative reason is that the game already has a nearly almighty God, invisible to the Sims - the player. I don't think we players would enjoy competition from SimAllah, SimBrahma or any other fictional deity. The Grim Reaper is fierce enough.

SimCity 4 offers generic "houses of worship", as important service buildings, together with graveyards. When we scale down to The Sims level, we indeed see the need of a place for celebration of great events of life, and consolation. In our real world, these needs are universal.

The graveyard with the mausoleum was a move forward. As I wrote in the expansion thread, the graveyard should be completed by a "House of Life" where Sims could celebrate childrens' birthday parties (equivalent of christening/circumcision, confirmation/bar mitzvah and so on), weddings and funerals.

The House of Life would be the workplace of an Officiant, who offers advice and consolation to troubled Sims. Sims would also sing hymns resembling the Sims theme songs. The "religious symbol" in lieu of crosses or stars of David would of course be the Plumb-bob. The religion could be called "Simism".

Does this sound perverted? To me, it is not more strange than real-world religions. With the difference that Simism is obviously true.


Religion is a bad bad idea. Frankly, it would tick me off. Better no religion at all.
Instructor
#38 Old 11th Jul 2009 at 6:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HCAC
I think a spiritual aspect would be nice. I have no interest in crypids, whatever, but they were in Sims 2. I just chose not to use them.
Why not have the options for churches, mosques, whatever? Maybe we'd have some sims who want to follow the path of Guru or high priestess or something.

I don't see why people get offended when anyone brings up religion. No one is forcing anything on you. No one is asking you to bang a gong for Jesus or Buddha. But maybe some people might like to have it in the game.


Which is fine and yay for modders. I don't want it in mine and if it becomes a "skill", a "career path" and/or a rabbit hole, it's kinda hard to ignore. If people want it, they can mod for it, just as people modded for Final Fantasy characters, manga characters, adult objects, churches, synagogues... see where I'm going with this? There are some things that are very personal. Sex and religion tend to be the top two.

Edit: I believe that the reason this is such a hot button issue for this game where it might not be for other games is the simple fact that the fan-base for the Sims encompasses a lot more than just your "typical gamer". Moms who don't play any other games play it (and dads!). Heck, even some grandmothers I know love the Sims. It tends to be people like that, those in the "mainstream" who would find religion a sticky subject in a game.

Also, there are two arguments for religion in this thread. One claims they want to make the game more like "real-life" so it needs religion. Another claims they want religion of any sort, even one in jest, like llamas. Honestly, guys, these two arguments do not go together. The Sims isn't anywhere NEAR real life, no matter how you play. Sorry, that ghosts exist in the game kinda nixes the "real life" argument. The idea of a "fun" religion rocks except that...oh yeah, how do you not offend someone by making light of religion?

As I said, build your churches, synagogues, cathedrals, drive-through wedding chapels and be content.
Field Researcher
#39 Old 11th Jul 2009 at 6:57 PM
Religion in the Sims 3 would be an AWFUL idea. Period.

Fox News would be all over it. People would just get mad. Call it Blasphemy. Get mad because their religion is not well represented or not in it at all. I am a Christian, but I accept all other religions/atheism/agnosticism. The Sims 3 is best to stay clear of all that.

If they ever did make an EP like that. I would not buy it, and I'd probably be extremely repulsed.

EDIT: I can't believe that you guys actually want this to be an actual EP. Don't you see that religion is a touchy subject as it is without "simming" it up?

Why don't you guys just download religious CC instead? It'd be a lot safer for all of us and your religious needs will be satisfied.
Lab Assistant
#40 Old 11th Jul 2009 at 7:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Black_Barook!
Many people go about there lives just fine without democracy. Do we need that?

The more important question here should be, do our SIMS have that? They don't exactly get to vote about what we do to them. If I want to make my sim Mayor, she's going to be Mayor. Regardless, you've committed a serious logical fallacy. Democracy and religion are in no way related, and one can be necessary while another can be superfluous. Or both can be necessary, or neither. They have nothing to do with one another. See example:
"I think lemons should be in the Sims."
"Ew, I hate lemons. I live my life just fine without lemons, why do my sims need them?"
"Well people live fine without democracy too, but we still need it! Therefore we need lemons."

No.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aeval99
Some people lose all rational thought when dealing with religion and it just causes trouble. Why cause a problems when you don't have to?

There have been a lot of people thinking along these lines, but this one puts it most succinctly IMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild_Missingno
I thought part of the appeal of the Sims series was that you get to be God. Or is that just me? Come on, don't tell me I'm the only one here with delusions of grandeur.

Definitely not just you. :D

Quote:
Originally Posted by crocobaura
And maybe they could make spirituality into a skill, that the sims could gain from reading the holy sim books, or from takling about spirituality to other people with high spirituality skill points.

The instant one of my sims rolls the want to read a Bible, I'm uninstalling my game. And they WILL, because there's code in place to "Try Something New" (this is how it's labeled in the XML) that governs the chance that a want that has absolutely nothing to do with anything in the sim's life pops up. Ever had a sim roll a want to take a writing class when they've never even thought about writing? Yeah. It'll do that for your silly religion skill too, which nukes the option to ignore that facet of the game if you want to.

And before anyone lectures me about ignoring facets of the game, let's not forget that it IS after all a GAME that's meant to be played for FUN. Pretending to be religious because EA bent to the whims of the majority would never be fun for me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2rki3i
Sorry, English isn't my first language. I was just a bit confused.

Don't apologize. You're right. Necrophilia has to do with CORPSES. To say otherwise is reaching really, really far.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HCAC
I don't see why people get offended when anyone brings up religion. No one is forcing anything on you. No one is asking you to bang a gong for Jesus or Buddha. But maybe some people might like to have it in the game.

No one's going to kick up a fuss if you mod it into your game. I just don't want you forcing it into mine. If you really think EA would make religious and non-religious versions of each 'hood, you're kidding yourself. It is, after all, EA. :P
Field Researcher
#41 Old 11th Jul 2009 at 7:38 PM
I think that this thread proves you should never talk about Money, Politics, and Religion.
Top Secret Researcher
#42 Old 11th Jul 2009 at 9:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by crocobaura
Sorry, they're still screwing with the dead, be them corpses, ghosts, or resurrected ghosts. That's conceptually represented necrophilia for you. They could make religion same way. As long as the religion doesn't have a name and descriptive rituals it won't be offensive. It will be just that religion and religious books, pretty much like cooks and cook books. If religion as a concept offends you, tough luck, you need to move to another planet.


Comparing necrophilia to religion is a weak analogy. People don't start wars over necrophilia. Yes, both are controversial topics better left unsaid but for different reasons. One causes otherwise calm, level-headed people to turn into raging blowhorns and the other is plain disgusting.

I think the game could do well without it. It's been religiousless for 8 years and has been going strong.
Inventor
#43 Old 11th Jul 2009 at 9:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angstrom
I'm just taking a look at my own games:

Civilization IV (seven real-world religions represented with buildings)
Command & Conquer (lots of Old Testament references)
Age of Empire series
Empire Earth
Colonization
Tropico
SimCity 4 (as mentioned)

Almost all games which simulate people, also simulate religion as a more or less prominent part of society.

But The Sims is of course different. The Sims does not aim to re-create a special culture, nation and civilization.

I don't think that religion - in the sense of worship of one or many divine beings - should be in the game.

However, there should be locations and ceremonies for the great events in Sims' lives. Even non-believers need these. We could look at atheist organizations to get inspired.


Al those games you listed deal with governmental forms and politics, as such, religion has a functional and even integral part in these games as politics and religion have always gone hand in hand. Sims is set on a far more smaller scale and as such doesn't need religion.

The Grumpy Old Gamer's Blog

~Life is like a box of chocolates, just when you're enjoying it, you choke on it.
Lab Assistant
#44 Old 11th Jul 2009 at 10:08 PM Last edited by DBZMerciter2005 : 11th Jul 2009 at 10:08 PM. Reason: Spelling error
If you want religion in the Sims 3, then get CC. Otherwise it just won't happen. As others have said it is far too easy to alienate people with religion than it is without.

I like the game religion-less, if only because I don't have someone walking up to my door asking me if I've heard of the Church of Latter Day Llamas.
Mad Poster
#45 Old 11th Jul 2009 at 10:22 PM
My thing is, what makes it fair to have no religion in the game? EA fail to realize that not all of their customers are Atheist, some of us do believe in god. A lot of you say that you like the game without religion, but just because you like it doesn't mean everyone else does. If they were to make a religious expansion pack, why would it phase any Atheists? Just don't buy it. Everyone's opinion should matter not just the non-religious group, and everyone has their own likes and dislikes.

"Going to the chapel of Love"

the girls club . statistics . yearbook .
transmogrified
retired moderator
#46 Old 11th Jul 2009 at 10:28 PM
Dreamydre15, if anyone ever told you life is fair, they were lying. EA does what's best for EA and what's best for EA is to avoid controversy. I bet, if you asked a Sims producer at EA, they would say they are more concerned about protests from organized religious groups than atheists if they put a comically conceptualized version of religion in their game. Religion is the third rail.
Lab Assistant
#47 Old 11th Jul 2009 at 10:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreamydre15
My thing is, what makes it fair to have no religion in the game? EA fail to realize that not all of their customers are Atheist, some of us do believe in god. A lot of you say that you like the game without religion, but just because you like it doesn't mean everyone else does. If they were to make a religious expansion pack, why would it phase any Atheists? Just don't buy it. Everyone's opinion should matter not just the non-religious group, and everyone has their own likes and dislikes.


Well, actually, I'd quite like to buy it simply because it's part of the game. I don't like lacking parts of my game. That's why I have all of the TS2 expansions and stuff packs even though I didn't really like University, Pets or some of the stuff packs.

If you want a religion, put it in yourself - build a church, mesh objects etc. It's much harder to remove something from a game if you don't want it than it is to put one in.

It's not really an essential gameplay thing, either. It's just ... something that can easily be ignored. Religion is something that is completely optional and by default no one is religious. I like how it's the same in the Sims.
Test Subject
#48 Old 11th Jul 2009 at 11:12 PM
As an Atheist, I certainly wouldn't be interested in religion in the game. But, it seems that the sims already secretly worship Llamas and it would be kinda funny to incorporate that into the game. But it would have to be subtle. No houses of worship or rituals, but maybe some books and a tv station devoted to the Llama. And when an "enlightened" sim dies (i.e. they read a lot about llamas in their lifetime), they get a little llama symbol on their gravestone.
Mad Poster
#49 Old 11th Jul 2009 at 11:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AyaJulia

The instant one of my sims rolls the want to read a Bible, I'm uninstalling my game. And they WILL, because there's code in place to "Try Something New" (this is how it's labeled in the XML) that governs the chance that a want that has absolutely nothing to do with anything in the sim's life pops up. Ever had a sim roll a want to take a writing class when they've never even thought about writing? Yeah. It'll do that for your silly religion skill too, which nukes the option to ignore that facet of the game if you want to.


No one's going to kick up a fuss if you mod it into your game. I just don't want you forcing it into mine. If you really think EA would make religious and non-religious versions of each 'hood, you're kidding yourself. It is, after all, EA. :P


I doubt they would be really as descriptve as to actually call the book the Bible. I think it's enough if they just call it the holy book. That way any one can pretend its part of a certain real life religion. And even if sims roll wants for reading such books, I don't see why you need to fulfill those wants. In Sims2 I actually managed to avoid sucessfully all supernatural creatures. I wasn't interested in them, I didn't have them in my game. Same with religion.
Scholar
#50 Old 11th Jul 2009 at 11:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by crocobaura
I doubt they would be really as descriptve as to actually call the book the Bible. I think it's enough if they just call it the holy book. That way any one can pretend its part of a certain real life religion. And even if sims roll wants for reading such books, I don't see why you need to fulfill those wants. In Sims2 I actually managed to avoid sucessfully all supernatural creatures. I wasn't interested in them, I didn't have them in my game. Same with religion.


I'd uninstall if they incorporated any kind of "holy book" into the game. It's not about avoiding or ignoring it, it's the principle.

Creator of the Sparkly Things
In Soviet Russia, the Sims mod you!

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