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EmilyJud
Field Researcher
#51 Old 11th Jul 2009 at 11:20 PM
All I have to say is that I like my sims worshiping me. I think it makes the game more fun that they have to obey my commands and if I want them to die they die if I want them to become a ghost, they become a ghost. I wouldn't want somebody else telling my simmies what to do. That would take the fun out of it.(If anyone finds this post offensive in any way then sorry, i wasn't trying to offend anybody.)
Sid Nitzerglobin
Lab Assistant
#52 Old 11th Jul 2009 at 11:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreamydre15
My thing is, what makes it fair to have no religion in the game? EA fail to realize that not all of their customers are Atheist, some of us do believe in god. A lot of you say that you like the game without religion, but just because you like it doesn't mean everyone else does. If they were to make a religious expansion pack, why would it phase any Atheists? Just don't buy it. Everyone's opinion should matter not just the non-religious group, and everyone has their own likes and dislikes.


First off, just because one doesn't worship god(s) and/or support the practice of organized religion, it doesn't make them an atheist.

Secondly, there are plenty of people who do worship god(s) and/or support the practice of organized religion who would rather not see The Sims games/EPs ship with religious content for wide variety of (IMO) good reasons.

Being how personal and inflammatory a subject this can be, it would be asking for trouble. No matter how it was implemented, someone would have a problem with it, whether they be atheist, Christian, Jewish, Scientologist, Muslim, Bahai, agnostic, whatever. Why eat up dev time with features that many would find offensive or just not that important and have the potential to drive down sales when the potential exists for them to be added with mods that would be completely at the player's discretion as to which flavor(s) they would like in their game.

For the record, I would definitely not be buying any EPs that implemented religion in a way that it couldn't be completely disabled, not just actively ignored. I don't play games to be preached to or converted. As AyaJulia mentioned, under the the current framework of how the game generates wishes, I imagine this is what would happen if EA added religion to TS3.
crocobaura
Mad Poster
#53 Old 11th Jul 2009 at 11:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gangreless
I'd uninstall if they incorporated any kind of "holy book" into the game. It's not about avoiding or ignoring it, it's the principle.


So, religion is that offensive to you that even a non-descriptive one woulod offend you? Do you get offended when you pass a church or a synagogue in real life?
Frankly I don't see what's the big fuss if sims would get to discuss spirtituality or read a book about spirituality on occassion. There's witchcraft and belief in the supernatural in Sims2 and Sims1, and that didn't seem to offend anyone. Why does spirituality as a concept offends people while witchcraft and plantsims do not in spite of the fact that both involve deities and spirituality ?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sid Nitzerglobin
For the record, I would definitely not be buying any EPs that implemented religion in a way that it couldn't be completely disabled, not just actively ignored. I don't play games to be preached to or converted. As AyaJulia mentioned, under the the current framework of how the game generates wishes, I imagine this is what would happen if EA added religion to TS3.


I'm sure if they ever were to add religion in one form or another to the game that they won't add the complete unabridged versions with footnotes and interpretations of the holy books of all major religions of the world. Reglion would be a detail, not the main purpose of the game. Pretty sure no one would be converted one way or another.
Gangreless
Scholar
#54 Old 11th Jul 2009 at 11:52 PM
Let's put it this way, I have been a faithful Simmer for however many years since TS1 came out. I've bought every EP/Stuff Pack, etc... and none have had this religion aspect built-in. Now, I've already bought TS3, the most expensive game, thus far. If they came out with a complete EP with religion, it would be a bait and switch almost. I've already bought the game, so if I want to expand it, I have to buy this religion expansion pack. No, I do not get offended walking past a church, that's not even a good analogy. I wouldn't shell out $50 to go on a walking tour of all the religious houses in my neighborhood.

Anyway, this whole discussion is academic. It's bad business to alienate people. Inserting religion into this game would alienate everyone.
☠ Creator of the Sparkly Things ☠
In Soviet Russia, the Sims mod you!
ZOMG Patterns! ZOMG! Patterns! the Group!
Awesomeness: When I get sad, I stop being sad and am simply awesome again. True story.
Sarasvati
Lab Assistant
#55 Old 11th Jul 2009 at 11:57 PM
crocobaura--This is the thing with religion and spirituality. There are people who are going to get massively offended on every single side of all the possible fences no matter what they do. Like I said earlier, when it comes to people's beliefs, it doesn't have to be logical or make sense. Gangreless has every right to stand on the principle of freedom from religion, no matter what her logic or reasons behind it.

Religion works in video games only when an entire mythology is built up around it, and none of it bears resemblance to real life religions. Polytheism is common in video games mostly because it bears more resemblance to ancient mythologies than a real, actively practiced religion. (Except Hinduism.) You'd be hard pressed to find someone who finds Greek or Norse mythology offensive. You know why that is? Because few people consider them real religions anymore, even though sects of neo-pagans are reviving them.

If religion were to ever exist in the Sims, it would've had to have been introduced like ten years ago. Making it a feature of an expansion pack in the middle of the third installment would strike many as tasteless, tacked on, and disrespectful.
If wishes were horses, we'd all be eating steak.
clockworkapple
Field Researcher
#56 Old 12th Jul 2009 at 12:04 AM
There would be massive flamewars if EA did something with religion in this game. If you were really fussed about it there's CC for all your spode needs xx
cloffee
Lab Assistant
#57 Old 12th Jul 2009 at 12:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by crocobaura
So, religion is that offensive to you that even a non-descriptive one woulod offend you? Do you get offended when you pass a church or a synagogue in real life?
Frankly I don't see what's the big fuss if sims would get to discuss spirtituality or read a book about spirituality on occassion. There's witchcraft and belief in the supernatural in Sims2 and Sims1, and that didn't seem to offend anyone. Why does spirituality as a concept offends people while witchcraft and plantsims do not in spite of the fact that both involve deities and spirituality ?


I think the point is that if religion WERE implemented in some way, shape, or form in TS3 it would be an active idea. Driving by a religious house of worship is passive, you don't have to deal with it, you don't even have to look at it. You don't need to have any contact with it what-so-ever and it doesn't affect your life at all.

If it was in your game you would have to deal with it. You'd get wishes to read the 'holy book' or attend some 'house of worship'. Your neighbors might talk about their religions to you, just like in TS2 with hobbies. If you didn't play a family for a while you might return to them noticing that they joined the "Divine Light of the Llama."

Plantsims & Witches don't have deities. None of them worship anything. I guess supernaturals are just seen as being less-threatening than religion? I mean there are a lot of mainstream kids shows that deal with the supernatural, with ghosts, werewolves, witches, vampires, etc. but none that really deal with religion (unless it's on those religious channels, but I did say mainstream.)
Wild Missingno
Instructor
#58 Old 12th Jul 2009 at 12:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cloffee
Plantsims & Witches don't have deities. None of them worship anything. I guess supernaturals are just seen as being less-threatening than religion? I mean there are a lot of mainstream kids shows that deal with the supernatural, with ghosts, werewolves, witches, vampires, etc. but none that really deal with religion (unless it's on those religious channels, but I did say mainstream.)

Most people don't seriously believe in zombies, vampires, werewolves, or witches, and kids shows don't expect kids to take the supernatural aspect seriously.
cloffee
Lab Assistant
#59 Old 12th Jul 2009 at 12:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Missingno
Most people don't seriously believe in zombies, vampires, werewolves, or witches, and kids shows don't expect kids to take the supernatural aspect seriously.


Exactly. Thank you
mdossantos047
Field Researcher
#60 Old 12th Jul 2009 at 12:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by crocobaura
So, religion is that offensive to you that even a non-descriptive one woulod offend you? Do you get offended when you pass a church or a synagogue in real life?
Frankly I don't see what's the big fuss if sims would get to discuss spirtituality or read a book about spirituality on occassion. There's witchcraft and belief in the supernatural in Sims2 and Sims1, and that didn't seem to offend anyone. Why does spirituality as a concept offends people while witchcraft and plantsims do not in spite of the fact that both involve deities and spirituality ?


crocobaura, you are missing the point.

Not many people worship Witches or Wizards, but people actually have religions with actual Gods. Not even the Sims worship vampires or whatever. It's not only Atheists that will be offended with something like this. Most theists would too (Me for example). There are way too many religions to count, and they would all have something that they don't like about the religious EP. Religion is too serious of an issue and way to involved in a person's life to make into a Sims game.

It's obviously something you may never understand. But I've had Christian (all kinds of types), Hindu, Singh, Muslim, Agnostic, and Atheist friends, and in seeing their beliefs, there will be NO WAY an EP like this will EVER, EVER, (ever) be made!

So just download religious CC and be happy. That's what it's for, anyway.
Rikachu
Mad Poster
#61 Old 12th Jul 2009 at 12:28 AM
I really don't like this thread. It's just gonna cause flame wars.

Anyway, as a christian myself, I wouldn't want to see religion in the game. A place for funerals, weddings, etc. yes, but not a house of worship. That would cause a major controversy, which, most likely, could get the production of the series stopped. I have plenty of friends all over different religions, and if I asked any of them, they would say the same thing.
AyaJulia
Lab Assistant
#62 Old 12th Jul 2009 at 12:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by crocabura
So, religion is that offensive to you that even a non-descriptive one woulod offend you? Do you get offended when you pass a church or a synagogue in real life?

Straw Man logical fallacy. You're taking what we're saying and twisting it into something ridiculous, then knocking down the straw man you set up to be so ridiculous to "prove" us wrong.

There are many of us who wouldn't find it fun to deal with some ridiculous play-spirituality. We don't want things that we don't find fun in our game. As has been said, you're welcome to mod it into yours. We just don't want it in ours. It doesn't mean we're offended. Just that we don't want to play as religious sims.

You could ignore those wants if you're playing a silly family for a storyline or something, sure. But what if my self-sim suddenly wants to become religious? I'd be disgusted with the game, and I'd turn it off.

I'd give my specific views on religion, but I'm certain a mod would delete my post if I did. Believe me though, it's not that it's offensive to me. Not in the least bit.
Sid Nitzerglobin
Lab Assistant
#63 Old 12th Jul 2009 at 12:34 AM Last edited by Sid Nitzerglobin : 12th Jul 2009 at 1:31 AM.
Quote:
Originally Posted by crocobaura
I'm sure if they ever were to add religion in one form or another to the game that they won't add the complete unabridged versions with footnotes and interpretations of the holy books of all major religions of the world. Reglion would be a detail, not the main purpose of the game. Pretty sure no one would be converted one way or another.


I wouldn't think that they would. Having my sims pestered to read the generic holy book or visit the non-denominational, milque toast house of worship at random intervals would be enough of a turn off to make me spend my ~$40 else where.

If the demand for religious features to be added to TS3 is great enough to offset the potential headaches and lost sales for EA to do so in an expansion pack, it's within their power to do it and congratulations to those who got what they wanted. I just wouldn't be buying it, as I feel it would detract from my gameplay experience rather than add to it.
mikrokitty
Field Researcher
#64 Old 12th Jul 2009 at 12:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angstrom
Here is an excellent interview with MJ Chun, one of the Sims producer.

http://fidgit.com/archives/2009/06/..._a_producer.php

Chun dodges the question why there is no religion in TS3.

Here is a further comment.

http://flashofsteel.com/index.php/2...swer-that-isnt/

The most obvious reason why religion is not in The Sims Series, is because of its aim to be culturally neutral. If the Sunset Valley had a church, it would also need a synagogue, a mosque, a stupa and so on. Balancing skin colors and name origins to avoid a white Anglo-Saxon majority is difficult enough.

Also, any gameplay difference between two religions could be interpreted as if one was "better" or "worse" than another.

Another more speculative reason is that the game already has a nearly almighty God, invisible to the Sims - the player. I don't think we players would enjoy competition from SimAllah, SimBrahma or any other fictional deity. The Grim Reaper is fierce enough.

SimCity 4 offers generic "houses of worship", as important service buildings, together with graveyards. When we scale down to The Sims level, we indeed see the need of a place for celebration of great events of life, and consolation. In our real world, these needs are universal.

The graveyard with the mausoleum was a move forward. As I wrote in the expansion thread, the graveyard should be completed by a "House of Life" where Sims could celebrate childrens' birthday parties (equivalent of christening/circumcision, confirmation/bar mitzvah and so on), weddings and funerals.

The House of Life would be the workplace of an Officiant, who offers advice and consolation to troubled Sims. Sims would also sing hymns resembling the Sims theme songs. The "religious symbol" in lieu of crosses or stars of David would of course be the Plumb-bob. The religion could be called "Simism".

Does this sound perverted? To me, it is not more strange than real-world religions. With the difference that Simism is obviously true.


Sims don't need religion... I am their god!
xoJessi
Test Subject
#65 Old 12th Jul 2009 at 12:45 AM
What would be the point of having religion in it? To try and get the sims to pray to you? Or would you rather them pray to whoever your praying to? <_<

That's just like saying, okay someone is controlling our lives but lets overlook them and worship someone who is controlling theirs (or whatever you believe- reincarnation).

I wouldn't mind so much, if it was purposely fake funny religions (Worship the Llama's or Grilled Cheese whatever). . . but what's the point of putting all the real ones in there?
~*LJ*~. . . ~*Real*~. . .~* Oasis
clockworkapple
Field Researcher
#66 Old 12th Jul 2009 at 12:50 AM
I think that only religion that should be allowed is Falun Gong and that sims practicing other religions should be persecuted and have their organs harvested.






















jokes.
Garek Maxwell
Test Subject
#67 Old 12th Jul 2009 at 12:58 AM
I'm finding it funny that some people prefer to have their religion commercialized and sold in products sold by a large corporation bent purely on profit. Maybe that's just me, but I would think that turning a religion into a commodity would surely offend people who take their religion seriously.

...Yeah, probably just me. Darn my thinkin's.
Emimori
Lab Assistant
#68 Old 12th Jul 2009 at 1:05 AM
I think it would be a neat concept to put your own kind of religion in the game as a mod. I'm not a religious person myself and I believe if they ever do put it in the game the religion should just be something made up that would be very basic. I personally think the idea of a Llama god is quite funny. I do understand however that religion is a touchy subject and might be hard to incorporate into the game.

If not religion at all I hope in future games they'll add wedding chapels or make an expansion pack similar to celebration that also has some fun things for child birthday parties such as those blow up things you can jump inside.
Energizer Bunny arrested, charged with battery.
Gangreless
Scholar
#69 Old 12th Jul 2009 at 1:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garek Maxwell
I'm finding it funny that some people prefer to have their religion commercialized and sold in products sold by a large corporation bent purely on profit. Maybe that's just me, but I would think that turning a religion into a commodity would surely offend people who take their religion seriously.

...Yeah, probably just me. Darn my thinkin's.


You're a radical one, you are.

Also, if anyone does get around to modding this, be sure to enable sims to worship at the base of the Grim Reaper statue at the cemetery... at least that would look cool, and make for some great storytelling. Ooo.. and you could have them make offerings in hopes of bringing their loved ones back to life (as ZMOOOOBIES!).
☠ Creator of the Sparkly Things ☠
In Soviet Russia, the Sims mod you!
ZOMG Patterns! ZOMG! Patterns! the Group!
Awesomeness: When I get sad, I stop being sad and am simply awesome again. True story.
HystericalParoxysm
world renowned whogivesafuckologist
retired moderator
#70 Old 12th Jul 2009 at 1:16 AM
We got plenty of religious stuff for TS2 - from custom content. There were crosses, statues, candles, churches, synagogues, and worshipable shiny monkeys. If that's something you want in your game, we'll have it eventually as custom content. Me, I don't want it to be any part of my game as I'm not religious IRL and don't really feel like having that in game.

And I think EA understands that no matter how they could possibly implement it, it would offend someone.

Make it a real-life religion and someone will be offended that it's not -their- religion. Or if it is their religion, some would think it wasn't properly implemented.

Make it an imaginary religion and someone will be offended that you cannot choose a real-life religion. Or that it appears to have rituals similar to X real life religion. Or that it appears to be monotheistic/polytheistic and that's ebil. Or whatever.

It's just not going to happen as any official EP/SP. But if you want it in your game, go learn to mod. Go on... I dare ya.
my simblr (sometimes nsfw)

“Dude, suckin’ at something is the first step to being sorta good at something.”
Panquecas, panquecas e mais panquecas.
Gangreless
Scholar
#71 Old 12th Jul 2009 at 1:19 AM
[Off Topic] HP: Is there a page somewhere that lists the "levels" you get from having a certain number of posts? Test subject, instructor, forum resident, etc...?
☠ Creator of the Sparkly Things ☠
In Soviet Russia, the Sims mod you!
ZOMG Patterns! ZOMG! Patterns! the Group!
Awesomeness: When I get sad, I stop being sad and am simply awesome again. True story.
fiberglassdolphin
Test Subject
#72 Old 12th Jul 2009 at 1:22 AM
I wouldn't mind having a Church of Will Wright of Llama-Day Saints, as long as my Sims don't get autonomously baptized (unless they have the "spiritual" trait that could have been).

Of course, this would cause atheists to throw hissy fits, since it would be clear that Maxis is trying to convert them to Llamaism. Any hint at a theistic reality, even one that completely mocks real-world religion, causes them to screech and cower in fear at the METAPHYSICAL TRUTH OF THE UNIVERSE THAT THEY ARE TOO STUBBORN TO ACCEPT THROUGH FAITH.

I for one enthusiastically await the return of Will Wright, who will rapture all of the True Sims Fans up his magic beanstalk and cast EA off of its throne of worldly corruption.
Emimori
Lab Assistant
#73 Old 12th Jul 2009 at 1:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fiberglassdolphin
Of course, this would cause atheists to throw hissy fits, since it would be clear that Maxis is trying to convert them to Llamaism. Any hint at a theistic reality, even one that completely mocks real-world religion, causes them to screech and cower in fear at the METAPHYSICAL TRUTH OF THE UNIVERSE THAT THEY ARE TOO STUBBORN TO ACCEPT THROUGH FAITH.


That's a mean thing to say. I am an atheist and I said earlier I would not mind having religion in my game. It's just difficult to put religion in the game without offending religious and non-religious people.
Energizer Bunny arrested, charged with battery.
Gangreless
Scholar
#74 Old 12th Jul 2009 at 1:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fiberglassdolphin
Any hint at a theistic reality, even one that completely mocks real-world religion, causes them to screech and cower in fear at the METAPHYSICAL TRUTH OF THE UNIVERSE THAT THEY ARE TOO STUBBORN TO ACCEPT THROUGH FAITH.


Up to this point, we had been having a somewhat healthy and civilized discussion. Congratulations on successfully making yourself look like a idiot.
☠ Creator of the Sparkly Things ☠
In Soviet Russia, the Sims mod you!
ZOMG Patterns! ZOMG! Patterns! the Group!
Awesomeness: When I get sad, I stop being sad and am simply awesome again. True story.
AyaJulia
Lab Assistant
#75 Old 12th Jul 2009 at 1:27 AM
fiberglassdolphin: You're devolving into personal attacks now. Reign yourself in. I'm not a mod, but I'd recommend discussing the topic of religion in TS3 without making blanket statements about any one particular group of people, k?
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