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Alchemist
Original Poster
#51 Old 31st Jul 2009 at 3:25 AM
The MLOD format has many possible construction variations, but since you didn't post all of the files, I cannot see.

But that error would indicate that your .mcfg file is named "9_cfg.mcfg", but there is no file "9_block00.bnry". Perhaps you accidentally renamed the .mcfg file from what you started with? There is a reason all of the files have the same first part of the name, so they can all be located and put back together into a .lod/.model file.

<* Wes *>

If you like to say what you think, be sure you know which to do first.
Test Subject
DELETED POST
31st Jul 2009 at 3:53 AM
This message has been deleted by *Norbi*.
Test Subject
#52 Old 31st Jul 2009 at 4:05 AM
Thanks for your reply.

I tried it on another computer and it worked. It looks like the problem is on my computer.
Alchemist
Original Poster
#53 Old 31st Jul 2009 at 4:40 AM
Well, I am interested in it, to see if it is fixable. That is, if you can get it to happen again. Maybe by starting over on the other computer you cleared the issue.

If you can get it to happen again, maybe you could .zip or .rar the whole directory and post it, that way I could see what is wrong.

<* Wes *>

If you like to say what you think, be sure you know which to do first.
Test Subject
#54 Old 31st Jul 2009 at 11:43 AM
I noticed something: the top of flat items gets a dark shade. It happened with different objects, like bookcases, tables, shelves, etc.

I tried to clone a base game dining table, imported the mlod back without any editing and it was fine.

Then I imported/exported it with Milkshape (no editing, only import/export) and I got that dark effect on top, so it must be something with the shading and the Milkshape plugins. However, I imported back the objects in milkshape to check them and they look fine.

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File Type: rar table_test_obejct.rar (618.3 KB, 10 downloads) - View custom content
Description: package
Test Subject
#55 Old 31st Jul 2009 at 12:04 PM Last edited by Udderbelly : 31st Jul 2009 at 1:15 PM.
Norbi I've found this. The .mcfg exporter seems to flip normals. As the table top is likely to only have 2 faces on top (when triangulated), it will make the entire top seem dark. I've had this with a coffee table and a chair.

In Milkshape go to Tools > Selection Editor. If the faces are darker than the others, then the normals are flipped. You could try selecting the troubled faces in Selection Editor, exiting that and then going to Face > Reverse Vertex or something like that. Export as .mcfg and re-import just to check.

And Norbi, it would appear fine in Milkshape because you have autosmoothing turned on. Turn it off and you'll see the black faces in Milkshape also.

Sometimes this works.. other times it just shifts the black spots to another area.
Lab Assistant
#56 Old 31st Jul 2009 at 12:40 PM Last edited by teko : 31st Jul 2009 at 1:37 PM.
Wes, you can also see the groundshadow of Norbi's reimported table is missing. Actually this happens to all objects exported with the Mesh Toolset.

Edit: It seems this is caused by faces facing either X, Y or Z direction which have inverted normals after export.




I'm trying to correct the shadow meshes with group 0x00010000 and 0x00010001 of my cloned object but it always explodes after I export from Milkshape (you can see when opening the mcfg again).



Edit:
This is definitely a problem with the exporter. It happens also to EA shadow meshes which aren't changed in Milkshape.
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File Type: zip vintagechair_shadowmesh.zip (45.1 KB, 10 downloads) - View custom content
Description: Work directory (mlod, bnry, mcfg, obj)

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Test Subject
#57 Old 31st Jul 2009 at 12:57 PM Last edited by Udderbelly : 31st Jul 2009 at 1:24 PM.
Just some notes on what could be happening above;

Like clothes, these two mystery mlod files used for creating shadows could have bones or Vertex ID's assigned. Meshes exploded like this while making clothes, if you imported an .obj file into a program that didn't support bones or Vertex ID's.

I'm not sure why but maybe these objects also have Vertex ID's or bones assigned which then explode as you import your objects through Wings3d, right? Wings doesn't support bones / Vertex ID's and therefore would explode this.

And because you've made an entirely new object, no bones would be assigned to these new vertices anyway, and again resulting in exploding meshes.

It's nothing definite I just thought I'd share some past experiences ~ it may help it may not.


Autosmoothing in Milkshape doesn't do anybody any favours. Turn it off!! ~ It only masks the problems. If you look at the shadow planes in Milkshape you will see the normals are inverted.. which you wouldn't have otherwise seen with autosmoothing turned on. The inverted normals would therefore render the shadow files invisible. This could be why groundshadows aren't working. Try flipping the normals and then see.
Forum Resident
#58 Old 31st Jul 2009 at 1:34 PM
That "explosion" seems also to be the problem with the distorted shadow in my obelisk.

But I would say it's a problem with the importer, not the exporter. Exported shadowlods looed fine in Milkshape when I had a peek at them. This obviously happens when reconstructing the LOD.

As far as I could see, the shadowmeshes (at least those of the venus) had no bones.

The orginial shadowlods were black in Milkshape, so it seems to me the normals were pointing inwards, but normal flipping did not change that -> still black...

happy simming,
Xanathon


Xanathon's Laboratory :: WishList

.: Do not harass me with requests via PM, you will only get ignored :.
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Alchemist
Original Poster
#59 Old 31st Jul 2009 at 1:57 PM
I think there is still a problem with normals "flipping". Not all, just some.
Instead of floats in the game files, the values are compressed to save space. Since objects really only occupy a small range of all the values possible, they packed the values for the positions in 8 bytes, instead of 12, with an maxium error of 0.000030518. On an object displayed on a 1920 pixel wide screen, that is still no more than 1/20 of a pixel. You might miss the moon with that math, but it is as good as is needed for a video game.

Normals are compressed even further, into 4 bytes. It appears that I am not correctly recreating this 4-byte compression when placing the object back into the game. I am working to fix this as fast as I can.

<* Wes *>

If you like to say what you think, be sure you know which to do first.
Field Researcher
#60 Old 31st Jul 2009 at 10:46 PM
Wes, I'm not sure if you mentioned it already, but it seems you need the .Net 3.5 Framework since I tried using the decompiler without the Framework (Had to reinstall computer software thingy's. Was giving issues..). Should mention that
Firestarter
#61 Old 1st Aug 2009 at 12:16 AM
I have a workaround for the UV mapping problem. I spent literally twelve hours yesterday trying to get my vase to recolor properly. Only half the vase was recoloring, the rest kept referencing an alpha. It was driving me crazy. Finally, after redoing the mesh three times, all with various problems of their own, I simply took the alpha files out of the package, and that fixed it! And removing the alphas had no negative effect on the object in the game. File works fine. So, for anyone with a similar problem of the file only recoloring in certain mesh areas, see if taking the alpha's out of the package works for you, too. All I removed were the alpha image files, I left the default images in and colored those.

Re-UVmapping had no effect on fixing this problem. Didn't matter what I tried. The only solution was removing those alphas.

This is my vase
http://www.sims2workshop.com/viewtopic.php?t=3257

Also, mesh distortion seems to occur depending on what file you clone from. One of my clones distorted the vase handle, so I switched to a different object and then it came out perfect.
Alchemist
Original Poster
#62 Old 1st Aug 2009 at 12:22 AM
Oh, it's not .net, it's the Visual Studio 2008 Runtime. It's probably in the .net update.

As for the groundshadows, most of them have no normals in the EA packages to start with. Well, the field for the normals is 0,0,0, which is what the exporter will export if left untouched. It has UVs, so if it needed normals it would have them (although a few varieties of groundshadows don't even have UVs, just positions).

I suppose I should put an "unassigned bones exist" warning in the exporter. More objects than not have a root bone, and the exporter does not default assignments to this. Especially since it is apparently causing problems.

And as far as some normals flipping, I have confirmed they do, and I have a file that it happens on, courtesy of UdderBelly, and I have spent *all day* trying to figure it out. Like an old hounddog on a trail, I will get what I am loking for sooner or later.

<* Wes *>

If you like to say what you think, be sure you know which to do first.
Alchemist
Original Poster
#63 Old 1st Aug 2009 at 4:21 AM
Wel, I figured out the issue with the normals flipping. As it always turns out, the answer was very simple.

Udderbelly had the symptoms nailed perfectly, it only happened on faces that were perfectly horizontal or vertical, and it was because I was off-by-one on the method I was using to uncompress and recompress the normals.

I am going to take some time to fix a few more things and release a new update sometime tomorrow (probably not first thing). But I tested the results by placing Udderbelly's chair into the game (textured with the BioHazard sculpture texture).

So, it is a BioChair.
Screenshots

If you like to say what you think, be sure you know which to do first.
Field Researcher
#64 Old 1st Aug 2009 at 4:38 AM
Can we add extra vertices? :D

It's alright to make mistakes you're only human. Inside everybody's hiding something. Take time to catch your breath and choose your moment. Don't slide.
Alchemist
Original Poster
#65 Old 1st Aug 2009 at 5:02 AM
Most certainly, although you are stuck with the same number of groups as in the object you cloned from. The object I made are complete replacements of the package mesh (plus texture replacement).

<* Wes *>

If you like to say what you think, be sure you know which to do first.
Test Subject
#66 Old 1st Aug 2009 at 11:28 AM Last edited by Udderbelly : 1st Aug 2009 at 11:41 AM.
This is great news Wes! Can't wait for the new release ~ glad you fixed the problem Thank you

(Lovin' the BioChair )
Forum Resident
#67 Old 1st Aug 2009 at 11:35 AM
Very nice work, Wes, thanks a lot for your efforts.

So, the shadows do not have normals. Can we remove them in Milkshape?

happy simming,
Xanathon


Xanathon's Laboratory :: WishList

.: Do not harass me with requests via PM, you will only get ignored :.
.: Don't post my objects or objects derived from them on paysites or the exchange! :.
Test Subject
#68 Old 1st Aug 2009 at 11:43 AM
Xanathon - the .mcfg must have the same number of groups as you export it as it does when you import it. So if you remove the shadows, that leaves the unequal amount and Wes' tools will not let you export :P

Because the shadows were files that were facing directly upwards - the shadow normals flipped and didn't show. The new release of Wes' tool should stop the normals flipping, making the shadows work!
Lab Assistant
#69 Old 1st Aug 2009 at 11:43 AM
Wooot! Thanks for your effort Wes! This is also going to solve the issue with the groundshadows.

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Field Researcher
#70 Old 1st Aug 2009 at 3:33 PM
Wes, can you give me a link to the download for the Runtime? I'm having trouble finding it on Microsoft's site. I installed .Net Framework 3.5 SP2. Still is not decompiling for me. I guess it does not come with the Runtime.
Forum Resident
#71 Old 1st Aug 2009 at 4:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Udderbelly
Xanathon - the .mcfg must have the same number of groups as you export it as it does when you import it. So if you remove the shadows, that leaves the unequal amount and Wes' tools will not let you export :P

Because the shadows were files that were facing directly upwards - the shadow normals flipped and didn't show. The new release of Wes' tool should stop the normals flipping, making the shadows work!


I do not talk about the shadow subgroup, I talk about the shadowLODs.

Two different things.

But I should rephrase...

I use my object mesh also as a shadow mesh, but at a lower polycount and deformed vertically and repositioned. But it is still my object mesh and as such has normals. Does the shadow mesh do not NEED normals or is this a bug of the decompiler?

happy simming,
Xanathon


Xanathon's Laboratory :: WishList

.: Do not harass me with requests via PM, you will only get ignored :.
.: Don't post my objects or objects derived from them on paysites or the exchange! :.
Test Subject
#72 Old 1st Aug 2009 at 4:29 PM
Ohh right you mean the flipped normals for the shadow mesh. I'm not sure ~ We'll have to wait and see what Wes' new tool brings
Test Subject
#73 Old 1st Aug 2009 at 6:05 PM
hey wes long time member of mod the sims 2 but my account got purged . just a small question. does this model tool need the latest milkshape?
Forum Resident
#74 Old 1st Aug 2009 at 7:32 PM
The readme that comes in the archive says "MilkShape 1.7.9 up".

happy simming,
Xanathon


Xanathon's Laboratory :: WishList

.: Do not harass me with requests via PM, you will only get ignored :.
.: Don't post my objects or objects derived from them on paysites or the exchange! :.
Lab Assistant
#75 Old 1st Aug 2009 at 8:48 PM Last edited by kihaad : 1st Aug 2009 at 9:02 PM.
Mhh i can't to open the program...
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