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Test Subject
Original Poster
#1 Old 9th Nov 2009 at 4:40 AM
Default About TSR Workshop
I've been wanting to take a stab at creating clothing meshes and some such using Workshop but have noticed a few naysayers about the program.

Is it really as unreliable and unsafe as they say or is it just a bit of paranoia?
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Instructor
#2 Old 9th Nov 2009 at 5:31 AM
You'll have to make up your own mind, but personally I wouldn't touch anything from TSR because of the bad history they have.

For instance: Releasing personal information, hacking into free sites, being involved in taking down free forums, stealing meshes from free creators and selling them...the list goes on.

Every anti virus program warns you when trying to install TSR workshop, that it isn't save, that's what I've heard anyway.

So...no, I don't think it's paranoia myself.
It's up to you if you want to risk your PC.

You can find more of my stuff here: http://www.blackpearlsims.com/downloads.php
One horse disagreer of the Apocalypse
#3 Old 9th Nov 2009 at 8:42 AM
I have been testing TSR Workshop, and it seems friendly to use. I have had mixed results but I can't tell for sure if that is my error or a problem with the tool. Some objects it doesn't handle yet, and you still need S3OC for those.

As for allegations by Dee, releasing personal information has been confirmed by Thomas, the rest remain allegations. Not sure whether using Workshop increases your vulnerability, however.

"You can do refraction by raymarching through the depth buffer" (c. Reddeyfish 2017)
Mad Poster
#4 Old 9th Nov 2009 at 11:12 AM
I used it occasionally until recently and while it was sort of OK in some very basic ways, it was very unsatisfactory in many others. I found it too limited - you could only modify an existing in-game mesh and your modifications had to involve the modified object having the exact same number of vertices as the original object or else TSR Workshop would crash (they did say the 'same number of vertices' issue would be fixed in the next release, which may be out by now), and it was pot luck as to whether it imported my mesh back into TSRW successfully or whether it turned up mashed up together with whatever the original item was that I cloned it from.

The main thing I used it for was sunglasses, which I needed for a sim I was making to upload here, but discovered to my horror that on a Mac, his shades reverted back to the ladies' shades I'd cloned them from! Even on a PC, his avatar shows him wearing the ladies' shades although he does wear the men's shades in-game. I really found that very unsatisfactory, and now that Delphy has created a tool enabling use of his CTU to make glasses, which do show up correctly on a Mac and in the sim's avatar on PCs, I no longer use TSR Workshop.

I also found that if I created a hair mesh with TSR Workshop, it would show up in-game as a reddish-brown colour and was not recolourable. Your mileage may vary, and the latest release may fix these issues, or it may not.
Field Researcher
#5 Old 9th Nov 2009 at 1:47 PM
I've used the latest workshop two or three times, mostly in desperation when I wasn't able to do something with tools available here, but I wasn't satisfied with the results, mostly because when I want to further tweak the inside of an object either made with the workshop, or cloned with S3OC but edited with the workshop, with s3pe, I get an unusable package (it stops showing in game). It did that to me each time. It does seem to have a few interesting features, but the interface itself remains a bit opaque (I think). And that problem with editing with another program is a big no no for me.
Another thing I noticed (and it may rejoin what Esmeralda said), the old mesh appears for one second before being replaced by the new one... Which is not really an issue (but I really wonder why it does that).
Anyway. If you want to try it and are afraid of the bells and whistles, you can always install it while being disconnected from the net. I did that and didn't get any special problems.
I must point out that the option to disable connection to tsr on start-up ALWAYS returned to default (connect to it), the 2 times I started it (although I did disable that option every time). I think that's sneaky and I don't like it.
Forum Resident
#6 Old 9th Nov 2009 at 1:54 PM
I had this fleeting idea that I will download it and try changing an object's default pattern the easy way (heard it can do that), but if you're saying that after that I'm unable to edit an object further, then it's out of the question I guess.
One horse disagreer of the Apocalypse
#7 Old 9th Nov 2009 at 1:56 PM
No, the latest TSR Workshop allows import and export of .package files. You can therefore move the package between tools.

"You can do refraction by raymarching through the depth buffer" (c. Reddeyfish 2017)
Mad Poster
#8 Old 9th Nov 2009 at 2:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hazuitokage
Another thing I noticed (and it may rejoin what Esmeralda said), the old mesh appears for one second before being replaced by the new one... Which is not really an issue (but I really wonder why it does that).


With sunglasses or hair, the old mesh would appear for a second and then be replaced with the new one, which wasn't a problem.

What WAS a problem was that whenever I tried to create any other type of head accessory, such as using the earrings to clone from, the original earrings would be PERMANENTLY mashed-in together with whatever I'd created. For instance, I was trying to create a pair of elf ears before the elf ear sliders came out, and whichever earrings I cloned them from would appear attached to the elf ears (just one earring though, not both!). I almost thought it might be an interesting effect anyway, but although it would show up in CAS, it would crash the game when I tried to go in-game.
Field Researcher
#9 Old 9th Nov 2009 at 3:05 PM Last edited by hazuitokage : 9th Nov 2009 at 3:40 PM.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inge Jones
No, the latest TSR Workshop allows import and export of .package files. You can therefore move the package between tools.


Well, that's what's happening to me anyway. Package not appearing in game after edit with s3pe, I mean.
But I don't mean to deter other people to try it. On the contrary. People should use the programs they feel the most comfortable with.
Besides I only tried this twice. I know the second time, there was a bunch of double stbl files (? I think. the files with the descriptive text), added inside the package , even tough I didn't do anything to them. I deleted them so maybe that's what caused the package to not appear in game.
Inge, you did say the workshop native format wasn't exactly the same, so is it that surprising that there may be a problem when combining it with the tools in here ? My (admittedly limited) understanding is that the workshop wasn't meant to produce packages at first, that was only added later on… After all, all the tools are in beta stage. Only using them reveals problems, but not many people point out the 'cross pollination' ones, because of the way a lot of people feel about tsr (in one way or another). The general atmosphere seems to indicate we should choose either the workshop or the S3oc, S3PE etc. suite of tools developed here, which is not very productive in terms of exchanging information about using all of them towards a same goal : producing good objects (and other stuff ^^).
Granted, griping about the workshop probably should be done over at tsr forums, but in the case of cross-using, the problem still remains, if people are going to tell us to not use other tools, or that everything is fine when it isn't.

Anyway... I don't want to generate controversy, I'm just commenting from personal experience.
And I think you should try it, Lemon, if you want to. That's the only way you can judge for yourself. And if it works, that would be great (I thought about this changing the default patterns easily too. I'm just too busy wth other stuff to try it.).
Forum Resident
#10 Old 9th Nov 2009 at 3:41 PM
Okay thanks
One horse disagreer of the Apocalypse
#11 Old 9th Nov 2009 at 3:42 PM
It seems to work better, if you are intending to use multiple tools, if you create the package with S3OC in the first place. Workshop creates quite different composition of packages.

"You can do refraction by raymarching through the depth buffer" (c. Reddeyfish 2017)
Lab Assistant
#12 Old 9th Nov 2009 at 6:18 PM
Please be patient with a programm which got rather complex now over these months. We're working on making CC creation a breeze and as easy as possible.

I'd like to point out that the stuff/bugs mentioned might be the result of wrong usage of the software or are bugs that have been fixed long time ago.

Workshop only supports Packages so those files can be used in other programms too. However, it should not be used as the final CC format as Package is not recognized by the game due to wrong installation which results in CC not packing with houses/sims.

Workshop clones only the resources really needed for an item to work. The main difference is that it won't include any textures from the start on, they're all linked. As soon you import an own texture, this resource gets added to the project content.

Minisite

TSR Workshop
A Custom Content Tool for The Sims 3
Warrior Gryphon
site owner
#13 Old 9th Nov 2009 at 6:24 PM
The main problem I found with TSRW was that the packages it generates are, as teko mentions, the "resources really for an item to work" which actually means that it's limited if you want to take the same item and do other things to it - like change the BGEOs or the morphs or whatever. Also, this might be fixed now, but from what I recall it had issues with clothing not allowing morphs properly.

Story books are full of fairy tales, of Kings and Queens, and the bluest skies.
Test Subject
#14 Old 9th Nov 2009 at 6:34 PM
Is it just me that thinks Dee's comment has no place in here whatsoever? Surely if this forum had any self respect there'd be rules aimed against spreading allegations like that.
Warrior Gryphon
site owner
#15 Old 9th Nov 2009 at 7:04 PM
SnowmanAndHisCat: It's just an opinion, some parts of which may or may not be true. Either way, the thread itself hasn't been derailed becuase of said comments, and we don't tend to censor any bad or negative thoughts (not even of our own site unless the poster is also using lots of swear words and spamming etc), and additionally the comments have been replied to.

With regards to one of Dees comments, I'd like to point out that the TSRW malware/antivirus thing was fixed at least a couple of months ago, and was based entirely on false assumptions - the underlying problem did exist (DLL hooking) but the fix was simple, and alternatives found - with the help of some people here, I might add. However, the experience still left a bad taste with some people, and as is common, bad experiences in the past tend to outweight any possible common positive impact now.

Not every forum has to just delete anything that is said just becuase some people don't agree with what is being said.

Story books are full of fairy tales, of Kings and Queens, and the bluest skies.
Top Secret Researcher
#16 Old 9th Nov 2009 at 7:07 PM
SnowmanAndHisCat -- It is JUST you. Did you need a brand new account just to say that?

Retired from the Sims world. Please continue to enjoy my creations. Thank you to everyone who helped -- by either giving me the tools and knowledge to create or by encouraging me & downloading my creations. The Sims community is the BEST!
Lab Assistant
#17 Old 9th Nov 2009 at 7:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Delphy
The main problem I found with TSRW was that the packages it generates are, as teko mentions, the "resources really for an item to work" which actually means that it's limited if you want to take the same item and do other things to it - like change the BGEOs or the morphs or whatever. Also, this might be fixed now, but from what I recall it had issues with clothing not allowing morphs properly.

Currently Workshop includes the following resources in a clothing item clone: BONE, CASP, CPRT, GEOM, PACKDESC, PRESET, PROP, SADJ, VPXY

As you see, it doesn't gather any DDS resources. Morphs are on the to-do list.

Minisite

TSR Workshop
A Custom Content Tool for The Sims 3
Sesquipedalian Pisciform
retired moderator
#18 Old 9th Nov 2009 at 7:51 PM
Adding my two cents.....

I use workshop for object meshing - very easy to use, and has a pretty little GUI for changing mask size and what not. I have had no issues with it - it asks me if I want to go to TSR - I say no - it lets me carry on. Its NOT as powerful as S3OC and S3PE (but who CAN keep up with the Jones's?) but its ok for simple stuff.

More downloads by Leesester, BoilingOil and others at Leefish.nl | My Stuff at Leefish.nl | LeeFish RSS | Sims4 News Blog | TumblinLeefish
Test Subject
#19 Old 9th Nov 2009 at 8:17 PM Last edited by dylanw : 9th Nov 2009 at 8:33 PM.
I actually use S3OC AND Workshop. I like both very, very much - both have a different purpose, both are great. I'm just very grateful for all the tools we have - and kudos to all those who develop them.

Dee's comment? Let's just say the anti-virus programs I've used jump at every program - including The Sims itself and anything else that connects to the net. As good AV software usually does.
Test Subject
#20 Old 9th Nov 2009 at 8:21 PM Last edited by SnowmanAndHisCat : 9th Nov 2009 at 8:31 PM.
For security measures I made a new account. I'm not going to go into detail why as I personally don't believe in spreading accusations or lies on public forums, whereas it seems others do.

I never ordered for the comment to be removed. It's not a matter of agreeing or disagreeing, but the fact that you're allowing such allegations to be spread across your forum.

But that's your choice, and your choice how your forum is percieved. You're clearly showing support for this type of comment by not at least acting upon it, or letting other users know they they are just allegations.

For the sake of this thread see this testing which was undergone by a team outside of TSR; http://www.the-prism.com/index.php?topic=3225.0
One horse disagreer of the Apocalypse
#21 Old 9th Nov 2009 at 8:33 PM
Snowman, now *you* are derailing this thread. I am always a little suspicious of people whose first ever post jumps straight into a complaint or controversy, rather than saying "hi" in the introduction forum, or asking some advice

"You can do refraction by raymarching through the depth buffer" (c. Reddeyfish 2017)
Née whiterider
retired moderator
#22 Old 9th Nov 2009 at 8:40 PM
If someone says something which it turns out is false, usually someone comes along and corrects them, as has happened here. That is the nature of discussion. If you think that the topic hasn't been covered sufficiently, then feel free to respond to Dee's post with your own take on things, as you have done.

You may not have directly asked us to remove the post, but you certainly implied that we ought to: either way, we correct false information and respond to opinions we don't like, rather than just deleting them out of hand.

Now, let's get back on topic: ease of use, stability, and power of TSRW's features compared to other tools.

What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact.
Field Researcher
#23 Old 9th Nov 2009 at 9:18 PM
I guess the only real answer to that is to try them all .
But it's certainly very interesting to get the feedback from creators who use both (or only one or the others), what they thought were the strong points and what they didn't like etc.
After that, once you've made the effort of learning to use a tool, you'd usually want to stick to it, unless there are things you want to do that it can't accomplish. There's also a matter of taste (like meshers liking different 3D programs. well, I guess use is important there too), and other considerations, that have already been covered. Which ultimately comes to personal choice.

I like to be more hands on, which is why I tend to be more attracted to the S3OC suite (even if it's really painful at times).

Teko, are you still using those ? I think you were at first, unless I'm mistaken. You seem to be very involved in the Workshop but have you totally abandoned modding with them ? I hope it's ok to ask ^^.
Forum Resident
#24 Old 9th Nov 2009 at 9:22 PM
I just did a little testing and found the same issue you mentioned Hazuitokage.
TSRW creates some new STBL's but I guess that's no big deal. But even if I don't edit the package in S3PE, it won't show up in the game. So it must be when putting it through S3OC that does this. (I edited the catalog details in it, did not renumber resources.) I'd really like to run them through the cloner though, for compression. The files TSRW creates are over 1mb.
In the Arena
retired moderator
#25 Old 9th Nov 2009 at 9:36 PM
Dee is not spreading allegations, she is stating her opinion; as have you Snowman . Thus, exist a "discussion". If you want to counter her words, then provide proof that said allegations are false. (why hide behind a new account, Snowman? very suspicious behaviour, if you ask me)

I have downloaded most TS3 tools to test for myself and have used s3oc, s3pe, Postal and TSRW to create/edit clones; 3viewer, MultiInstaller & Merlin to install CC; the various small editors (eg STBL editors) and SimCustomizer for their specific purposes and have chosen each tool that I'm currently using as best suits my style and preferences - not just going by a person's opinion.

As TSRW started as Sims3Workshop for patterns, it is clearly more intuitive to use when tweaking textures, but the object cloning still has a ways to go.

I did encounter some hiccups like TSRW spiking CPU usage whenever it is minimized or ALT+TAB out of (might be attributed to my temperamental old machine acting up), my firewall prompting me on its every venture into the registry and internet more than any other program I have installed of late; until I disabled and make it remember my choices. I do like that it is very, very easy to use - for example changing the objects' footprints is done in a snap! No need to do calculations and such.

So, while knowing how to make changes that I'm used to in s3pe, doing so in TSRW took some digging and reading up (Murano's/Teko's and Apple's entries in the TSR wiki helped - thx!). So, while they are improving TSRW, it is back to S3OC and S3PE as the tools of choice for me.
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