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Lab Assistant
#51 Old 10th Nov 2009 at 9:01 AM
@Fresh-Prince
Yeah this is the error I actually expected. The UV map of your object is bound to the square from 0,0 to 1,1. Anything below or above the game can't handle because of scalars.

@HugeLunatic
The footprints of an object can be found under the Slots tab in TSRW. I'm sure our programmers are happy to share that info how it's being done. Also solutions to other bugs of long term issues (both TSRW and S3OC/S3PE) but who takes up the challenge in builds these functions into S3PE? I thought the Jones are not interested in doing that work as well updating it to every new EP.

Minisite

TSR Workshop
A Custom Content Tool for The Sims 3
One horse disagreer of the Apocalypse
#52 Old 10th Nov 2009 at 10:01 AM
Teko! Not sure where you're getting the info about our plans for s3pe, but it's looking like you're trying to weave 30cm of wool into a blanket :D

Updating the tools - yes we're intending to update for EPs. But always with the proviso that if everyone stopped wanting to use s3pi tools, then there would be no point in continuing development.

Increasing scope of the tools - our spec is to keep things modular. Instead of building more things into s3pe, we have designed it so it can interact with other modular tools. Like plugins, but not actually loaded up with s3pe, so once you have used them and closed them they are unloaded. In theory there is no limit to the number of resource-specific modules that can be added, but Peter is unlikely to have time to do many of them himself and is focussing on the core and its library.

We wanted to encourage real choice for creators this time round, and I think between all the toolmakers, we are achieving it. Instead of seeing this as a TSRW versus S3PE rivalry, perhaps threads like this could explore which tasks are best in which tool. There is no reason any creator cannot use both systems at different times, depending on situation.

"You can do refraction by raymarching through the depth buffer" (c. Reddeyfish 2017)
Test Subject
#53 Old 10th Nov 2009 at 1:22 PM
I totally agree, Inge - we have never had it better IMO :D
Sockpuppet
#54 Old 10th Nov 2009 at 1:25 PM
Tsr workshop is a nice proggy and in combination with Postal or S3PE you can make watever you want with it.
Simply a export and import of the obj file will load a GEOM into the end package were you can load your own custom mesh into it.(with Postal or S3pe)
I also like the feature that you can load new TGI's in the mesh tab wich gives you the option to load either the original or custom DDS files into the package.

It fails to the point you want to add more complex custom meshes, with there own morphs/Bgeo/vpxy or blend files as those aren't simply there or are corrupt.
Field Researcher
#55 Old 10th Nov 2009 at 2:58 PM Last edited by hazuitokage : 10th Nov 2009 at 3:08 PM.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inge Jones
Updating the tools - yes we're intending to update for EPs. But always with the proviso that if everyone stopped wanting to use s3pi tools, then there would be no point in continuing development.


I don't think that's going to happen any time soon. Especially in here where we spend so much time developing our skills at using it.

@dylanw : You are missing the real point of my ( and Lemoncandy's) concern with sims3pack format, which was quite plainly written in my answer, but that you either didn't read or chose to ignore. Whatever, other don't so I suppose that's all that counts.
Test Subject
#56 Old 10th Nov 2009 at 3:22 PM Last edited by dylanw : 10th Nov 2009 at 3:32 PM.
I wasn't picking on your point

You picked on mine - puzzling at why I liked Sims3Packs because I upload them in lots.

It's no biggie - really. You don't upload lots with custom content (I presume) so it's a moot point. I do (I became bored of the default game content pretty quickly -especially windows), and package format does not work for that. If you use any 'package' custom content it is NOT kept in the lot, and it is not replaced by any other in-game defaults. Therefore, for builders who share their lots (with custom content), package file downloads are no good for builders unless you like writing long shopping lists - a chore for both builder and downloader.

So I choose the Workshop's Sims3pack format which installs custom content correctly so that it is reusable in uploaded lots. That's all - as I stated originally.
˙uʍop ǝpᴉsdn ǝɹ,noʎ 'oN
#57 Old 10th Nov 2009 at 3:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inge Jones
We wanted to encourage real choice for creators this time round, and I think between all the toolmakers, we are achieving it. Instead of seeing this as a TSRW versus S3PE rivalry, perhaps threads like this could explore which tasks are best in which tool. There is no reason any creator cannot use both systems at different times, depending on situation.


I agree. Although I mainly use s3pe, I'm certain I've used all the tools for one thing or another. The diversity of the tools allows us to adapt for our learning curve, gives us different perspectives, and allows different ways to do things. S3PE is very in-depth, TSRW is very visual. I use TSRW to see what I'm trying to do, and S3PE to achieve it.

"Part of being a mesher is being persistent through your own confusedness" - HystericalParoxysm
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In the Arena
retired moderator
#58 Old 10th Nov 2009 at 3:39 PM
dylanw, just wondering, do they uninstall as a pack too? There have been threads in the Help forums where players who changed their minds cannot uninstall the custom content that came in the packed Sims3Pack Lot/Sim although they have uninstalled the unwanted Lot/Sim.

Some of these players have ended up having to re-install their game.

For this reason alone, I'd rather upload and download a .package file; but like you say it is a preference and to each his own, plus caveat emptor and all that. Still, I would rather have the players been made aware of this distinction.

Hee cmomoney, same style of doing things, I see....
Test Subject
#59 Old 10th Nov 2009 at 4:03 PM Last edited by dylanw : 10th Nov 2009 at 4:22 PM.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ellacharm3d
dylanw, just wondering, do they uninstall as a pack too? There have been threads in the Help forums where players who changed their minds cannot uninstall the custom content that came in the packed Sims3Pack Lot/Sim although they have uninstalled the unwanted Lot/Sim.


If the content is a genuine Sims3Pack it can be uninstalled and removed from the game very, very easily, I'm happy to say!

When the downloader installs a lot that uses Sims3Packs, the Sims3Pack custom content is listed separately from the lot in the Game Launcher. Therefore, the downloader can simply use the Game Launcher to delete stairs, or windows or whatever, that they did not like. Likewise, removing the lot completely leaves behind the content, which the downloader can then opt to keep or remove in the Game launcher.

The Sims3Pack is the EA-defined format for custom content and so the game recognises and uses it correctly. THAT is why I only use Sims3Packs in lots I share. If I use package files, they're for my own game only.
In the Arena
retired moderator
#60 Old 10th Nov 2009 at 4:13 PM
Hhmm..there are Sims3Pack files which do not have "genuine Sims3Pack" content?
According to those seeking help, these content did not appear in the "Installed Content" section after the Lot/Sim was uninstalled but still available in CAS, thus the "unable to uninstall" issue.

Sorry, things got derailed from the TSRW discussion, back on topic now: I'm looking forward to the information the TSRW developers would share with the Sims community at large regarding things like how FTPT data was calculated. Likewise, I hope someone can crack the Routing Slot info soon.
Test Subject
#61 Old 10th Nov 2009 at 4:27 PM
I can't really comment on problems people are reporting. If these people are downloading lots with faulting content, they need to report back to the builder of the lot who can then report back to the maker of the content - but I haven't read of any Sims3Pack content failure yet, so I don't know what the content might be - unless the proper Game Launcher was not used to install the content - maybe that's a problem? Dunno - I only use the Game Launcher to install stuff.

So, all I CAN say is that Sims3Packs work fine and uninstall fine too - as individual items. They're a very safe option.
Lab Assistant
#62 Old 10th Nov 2009 at 4:41 PM
@Inge
I thought you were rather glad others are doing all the EP updating. I'm obviously wrong here. Workshop is also built to have several plug-ins. In fact one of Workshop's window would have the same possibility to expand it with plug-ins like S3PE does.

@dylanw
Contact me privately to get the test BETA Version 0.9 of Workshop where we have now unique IDs for imported packages.

@S3PE users
What's the advantage of using this tool for object creation other than for modding? I'm not up-to-date regarding this and I'd like to know.

Minisite

TSR Workshop
A Custom Content Tool for The Sims 3
In the Arena
retired moderator
#63 Old 10th Nov 2009 at 4:51 PM
lol, if these folks need to be "hand-held" to show they need to uninstall stuff from the "installed content" section, I doubt they use anything other than the official Game Launcher (which other installers don't have such a section, I believe).

The point I'm trying to make is that the uploader who uploads in Sims3Pack format need to make the downloaders be aware of the fact that CC are included in the downloaded Lot/Sim Sims3Pack file, because some of us like to pick and choose.
One horse disagreer of the Apocalypse
#64 Old 10th Nov 2009 at 4:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by teko
@Inge
I thought you were rather glad others are doing all the EP updating. I'm obviously wrong here.


Yes I am glad so many people are creating useful tools, and updating them.

Quote:
Workshop is also built to have several plug-ins. In fact one of Workshop's window would have the same possibility to expand it with plug-ins like S3PE does.


Well yes, that's good, why not?

You sound like you're determined to see this as a competition

"You can do refraction by raymarching through the depth buffer" (c. Reddeyfish 2017)
˙uʍop ǝpᴉsdn ǝɹ,noʎ 'oN
#65 Old 10th Nov 2009 at 5:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by teko
@S3PE users
What's the advantage of using this tool for object creation other than for modding? I'm not up-to-date regarding this and I'd like to know.


No advantage, really. I would compare it to the difference between automatic and manual transmission. So, it all depends on the driver.

"Part of being a mesher is being persistent through your own confusedness" - HystericalParoxysm
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Scholar
#66 Old 10th Nov 2009 at 6:41 PM
Dylan, I'm wondering, this cc you upload with your lots, you create it all yourself right? I mean you wouldn't just upload someone else's stuff with your lot without giving them credit would you?

Store stuff as we know, can't be uploaded with the lot and work, unless the person who downloads the lot actually has the store stuff.

I think it's wrong to just upload someone else's cc without giving them proper credit and asking for their permission to upload their stuff. I'm sure you wouldn't do that though, would you?

@Inge

Please don't stop with development of the S3OC and S3PE tools, some of us use this a lot and would be really miserable if it was gone. Please continue to give us the choice we need. Thank you for the work you and Peter are doing on these tools, I never fail to thank you on everything I make using them
Lab Assistant
#67 Old 10th Nov 2009 at 8:13 PM
@Inge
I see it as a comparsion of features which might lead, I must admit, into some sort competition. Which again leads to supreme performance for both parties and results in better tools.
But other than that, let's see who can drink more.

Minisite

TSR Workshop
A Custom Content Tool for The Sims 3
Test Subject
#68 Old 10th Nov 2009 at 9:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fluttereyes
Dylan, I'm wondering, this cc you upload with your lots, you create it all yourself right? I mean you wouldn't just upload someone else's stuff with your lot without giving them credit would you?


Er, permission sought AND credit actually - a no-brainer!

I am genuinely surprised that this is such a big deal here. I only named what I liked in both creation tools (S3OC and Workshop), and people are ignoring that and jumping on a total immaterial point that I use custom content in lots? In my downloading days, places like Sims Fashion Barn, SimaholicsRUs and TS2Creations all had a free usage 'anywhere' policy on their main page with credits/link, and other sites who would certainly say 'yes' if asked in private. Even here (long ago) there were people like Brasstex that would allow their stuff used in uploaded lots (anywhere). And TSR has a scheme where artists can volunteer their stuff on the basis that builders can use it and it doesn't matter if they're not credited by the builder. There are over 1000 very generous people on that list, including a lot of good creators. There are plenty of sites who have a 'no usage' policy, but builders don't need to bother downloading from those - they're for players only. There is no reason for builders to think they have no custom content at their disposal.

Back to Tools, Teko - a big thanks for the offer (PM coming your way). I prefer one tool rather than many personally (I have enough other tools with 2 x 3D progs and graphics so my personal preference is one for now). The current Workshop hasn't been it because of not being able to generate unique IDs for my imports. If the rumour is true about sun shadows being generated automatically then I am going to be one extremely happy creator. I'm hacked off with trying to make those.
Alchemist
#69 Old 11th Nov 2009 at 12:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inge Jones
Updating the tools - yes we're intending to update for EPs. But always with the proviso that if everyone stopped wanting to use s3pi tools, then there would be no point in continuing development.
S3PE and S3OC are here, they work, have been tested, and have a track record. Everyone else is playing catch-up... I notice that the game has been out since June, and S3PE has been out since June. Others are still promising delivery of features Real Soon Now.

If you like to say what you think, be sure you know which to do first.
Lab Assistant
#70 Old 11th Nov 2009 at 12:52 AM
I'd only use TSRW for see if my object will look great. Since I've been converting some 3d models from free sites, the texture might look distorted in some cases, 'cause of the uvmap. And as my video card sucks badly (not only that..), I cannot open the game each time I want to see how the thing's going.

I still prefer S3PE plus S3OC, anyways.

By the way, I prefer using .packages rather than sims3pack. I really hate sims3packs, as well as the Launcher. Using .packages, I think it si even better to handle, manage..

That's it. I know, my English sucks, but I try my best. rofl :D

If you love something, let it go. If it comes back to you, it's yours. If it's run over by a car, you don't want it.
Alchemist
#71 Old 11th Nov 2009 at 1:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by savio_araujo110
That's it. I know, my English sucks, but I try my best.


No, it doesn't suck. You do quite well, not perfect but perfectly understandable.

If you like to say what you think, be sure you know which to do first.
Alchemist
#72 Old 11th Nov 2009 at 1:14 AM Last edited by orangemittens : 11th Nov 2009 at 1:35 AM. Reason: d*** typos
The question, "@S3PE users What's the advantage of using this tool for object creation other than for modding?"

Well, for me at least, this question goes above and beyond the simple question of which tool can do what.

I trust the Jones' and WesHowe and I trust MTS. There is a track record there and this track record goes back a long time. I'm not going to bad-mouth anyone, but I have to say I don't have this same level of trust for anything coming out of TSR.

I also don't care for corporate which is, IMO, a sort of style issue that TSR embraces. As far as coming to Simland and having a good time making stuff and sharing stuff goes that kind of corporate style isn't really what I'm looking for. I prefer the sort of community work that goes on here at MTS. That's just me and I'm sure others have a different feeling about it so I'm not going to argue the point. I'm just stating my opinion on it.

The whole point, for me anyway, is exemplified by the way that Teko and Inge have approached this discussion. Inge talks about users benefitting by multiple models for meshing out there and Teko, excuse me for being honest here, has, on several occasions, made snarky remarks designed to belittle the work of others and has presented a really hard sell for the TSR tool. Inge talks about flexibility and Teko talks about picking one over the other. Inge talks about everyone being able to have access to things that work well while Teko talks about this like it's a competition that should drive one group or the other out of the game. It's an attitude issue.

I prefer to work with tools made by people who are watching and listening...who are available for questions and who deal with those questions in a patient, friendly manner. I don't want to sit in the drive-through being told what to order...and that seems more the TSR way IMO. Again, IMO. Not arguing...just sayin'.

As long as people are making tools for meshing here at MTS those are the tools I'm going to use. If there were no tools here at MTS I would be very conflicted about whether to continue meshing for Sims 3.

OM
Instructor
#73 Old 11th Nov 2009 at 1:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WesHowe
S3PE and S3OC are here, they work, have been tested, and have a track record. Everyone else is playing catch-up... I notice that the game has been out since June, and S3PE has been out since June. Others are still promising delivery of features Real Soon Now.


Exactly, I totally agree.

I would never use TSR Workshop out of principle, but that is my personal preference, everyone to their own.

Edit: Just saw your post OM, I agree...I don't like TSR's ways or Teko for trying to push us one way only.

You can find more of my stuff here: http://www.blackpearlsims.com/downloads.php
Lab Assistant
#74 Old 11th Nov 2009 at 1:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by orangemittens

The whole point, for me anyway, is exemplified by the way that Teko and Inge have approached this discussion. Inge talks about users benefitting by multiple models for meshing out there and Teko, excuse me for being honest here, has on several occasions has made snarky remarks designed to belittle the work of others and has presented a really hard sell for the TSR tool. Inge talks about flexibility and Teko talks about picking one over the other.


OM


I totally agree with you, OM. You said everything I had in mind.

If you love something, let it go. If it comes back to you, it's yours. If it's run over by a car, you don't want it.
Alchemist
#75 Old 11th Nov 2009 at 1:55 AM
I think there is a place in the community for their Workshop, but they are overselling it as the end-all for modding needs. They need not think that their success will come only by crushing their enemies and hearing the lamentation of their women... there is plenty of room for more developers than we have now.

It is game modding, not war.

If you like to say what you think, be sure you know which to do first.
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