In my neighbourhood, Daniel didn't cheat and instead stayed faithful to Mary-Sue. However, the family unit only stayed together another Sim week before Daniel moved to the monastery. Mary-Sue ended up living with Lilith, who grew up to be a sensible adult making good progress in the military career. Angela had long since left to attend university, where she is still studying Political Science (university takes a very long time in SimHampton).

Even back in TS1 that boy was trouble -_-

I usually ended up burning the maid, but when the Sims 2 first came out I was quite young, and within 10 minutes of playing all family-members were usually dead. I think I trashed all the pre-made neighborhoods, before coming back to the game years later where I *actually played it properly :D

And yep, I realize this post didn't really have much of a story to it.

What kind of stuff did your Daniel do as a kid? I mean, as a kid, he couldn't even cook!

I've restarted the original Pleasantview (for the umpteenth time, too), and in this game, Daniel and Mary Sue stay together, but only after Kaylynn moved in, had his baby, abandoned the child to move out when she found that he wasn't leaving his wife for her, and then Lillith, who has a marvelous relationship with her, moved out with the baby.

Solved 3 problems at once in this version!

Daniel still has the dirty old man lecherous mind-he now has a wish to woohoo in public. He'll never change, and Mary Sue still falls for him. Idiot.

In most my runs of Pleasantview I couldn't stand playing Daniel Pleasant and let him roam around the hood as a walkby, killing him off later when all other families aged. Right now I'm tempted to do the same.

Mary-Sue discovered Daniel's cheating, since she was supposed to and I like to follow the setup stories by Maxis. She also got fired before discovering, so it was a double blow. I imagine Daniel was cool with it, because I do imagine him as a bad person for some reason, and so he said "So what? If you dislike it, pack your stuff. I pretended that we're a good couple only for the sake of your career, and now you don't have that." I also think that the house is Daniel's, since Mary-Sue was raised by the Oldies, and it makes no sense for the house to be theirs if they don't live in it. And he does have a much better job and more money.

So Mary-Sue had her dream job crushed and even her false marriage crushed and is soon to be an elder, what a horrendous situation. For elder years she's left alone. I'm still thinking what she'll do in this playthrough, probably she'll go over to live with Angela. Or with Burbs.

Daniel is boring, though, Kaylynn would leave him anyway once she discovered that he wasn't going to marry her or whatever. Even if she becomes pregnant he won't care I'm sure of that. He already has two kids, and Lilith wasn't treated well, so I take it Daniel and Mary-Sue were too busy to deal with the second twin. If he didn't care for the second kid, why on earth would he care for the third...

I wonder what people think of reasons why Lilith got neglected. It's apparent from her memories that she wasn't even taught any toddler skills and grew up in low aspiration each time. My take on it is that both parents were into careers and had time only for one kid.

Why they chose such names is beyond me, though. I want it to make sense, nobody could predict that Lilith would have such a character to give her an appropriate name. So maybe Angela was called Angela just because it's a nice name, and Lilith got called Lilith because her parents felt creative.

My headcanon is that Daniel and Mary-Sue were newly married, starry-eyed and lovely-dovey and were only prepared for one child. Mary-Sue was going to have the prefect birth, no pain relief, whale music, hubby mopping gently at her forehead. The baby would sleep through the night straight away and Mary-Sue would breast feed and Daniel would be the best daddy ever and teach his little girl to fish... and then came reality.

Mary-Sue had complications with her pregnancy and ended up in hospital where they found out she was having twins. It was a difficult birth, they had huge medical bills and Mary-Sue got post-natal depression and never really bonded with the second twin, who was a colicy, screamy baby. Meanwhile Daniel decided he couldn't cope with the reality of family life and started fantasising about, then later acting out his young and single days. Watching Mary-Sue get so ill made him afraid to touch her in case it happened again. They called her Lilith as a sarcastic joke and it stuck. Lilith grew up sensing that her parents blamed her surprise arrival for shattering their suburban middle-class dream family and grew up into a resentful child, especially when Angela really did turn out to be the sweetheart her parents wanted.

I like my headcanon because I really do kind of like the family and don't think any of them are really intentionally mean, life just threw Mary-Sue and Daniel a curve ball and they couldn't cope. Lilith senses their resentment and acts out because of that. And poor Angie is there in the middle, wondering what the hell happened.

It's awesome, can I borrow it for my own game? I like stories with so much life in them.

I would love to give Daniel and Mary-Sue a moment of reconcilation, btw, even if it happens very late in their elder years.

My Lilith turned out to be quite lucky, though. She was living a horrible life with Dirk's child and had no luck with her job LTW (two times demoted, two times fired) until she suddenly met Carlos Contender and they had 3 natural bolts for each other. I think it's destiny. I based Carlos off of one of elders I know who used to be a romance-guy and never married, but during his elder years realized that he really wants a child and is now searching for a young wife, so that when he dies the child would still have his mother to care for him. He's rich, too, so it's quiet a match. My Lilith has everything now, except that she still dreams of being a rock star and it isn't working out.

My impression from the (very limited) time I spent with that family was that Angela grew up adept at putting a good face on things, while Lilith was one of those people who has to do everything the hard way. They have very similar ideas of how things ought to be, but whereas Angela will pretend that they are that way, Lilith insists on the reality and never gets it - because those ideas? Aren't realistic a bit! So Angela is hypocritical and Lilith is pig-headed; Angela would work with her parents and Lilith wouldn't; so Angela became the good girl and Lilith became the goat when family roles got handed out.

Nobody intends to hand out family roles; but it happens. I myself was defined as a good girl and another family member was defined as the goat, without anybody being aware that it was happening till it was far too late. "The goat" was smarter than me, but had to do everything the hard way, and was not averse to correcting teachers, so I got better grades. I remember once trying to explain that grades weren't about what you learned but about what you convinced the teacher you'd learned about what that teacher wanted to teach; this person insisted on not playing that game because that's not how things were supposed to be! This is far more in-line with the family's concept of rules (we were a military family) than my own behavior; but I may still be the only one of us who can see that. In conflicts, our parents really, truly tried not to take sides, but - I was the good girl and it was easiest for everybody to believe that the goat was in the wrong. Including the goat. It's very, very difficult to resist the power of these roles. After all, if you're treated like the goat regardless, what's your incentive to be good? And when "good" is defined both as "what's easiest for those around you" and as 'what's good for you," goats make a lot of suboptimal choices by default, because they've internalized the identity and think that's who they are.

So I figure that's what happened in the Pleasant house. It dates from the day the girls were named, but was unconscious. Daniel and Mary Sue probably didn't think about what the names meant, just thought that they were pretty and went together somehow. If Lilith was a cross baby and Angela was placid, Lilith was probably treated as the goat from the cradle, which means Angela got better care and grew up healthier and was just plain easier to see. So Lilith had to act up twice as much to get the same amount of attention, and then it was given impatiently. Since Angela and Lilith were twins, they carried their family roles out into the world with them when they started school, and the teachers fell into treating them according to those roles, too, as did the other kids. I wrote it into the story that the thing that attracted Lilith to Dirk was that he could actually see her, not the goat, when he looked at her.

At the same time, Angela got accustomed to the idea that, since she was the good girl, and she wasn't going to get into trouble whatever she did, everything she felt like doing was fine. Bad consequences could always be shoved onto Lilith. In fact, maintaining Lilith as the goat was an important element in maintaining her own status as the good girl. (I don't think I ever did this. But would I necessarily know I did?) Hence the tendency to goad her sister when no one is looking.

In my game, I had Daniel cheat on Mary Sue with the maid, Kaylynn, for a while, until I got bored one day and had him get caught. They divorced and Daniel moved into a trailer along with Kaylynn. For some reason, Daniel and Kaylynn always have twins in my game...weird. Anyway, I had him marry Kaylynn and have children with her, and then usually went on to cheat on her with Nina Caliente until I decided to just kill him or whatever. Either way, i always have him and Mary-Sue divorce.

And as for Mary- Sue, she has a great life without Daniel! I've had her marry townies, my own sims, or sometimes Cassandra Goth o.O! And usually Angela and Lilith stop fighting and actually become good friends before going off to University. Or sometimes, I make them fight even more. And usually, its over Dustin Broke...

They're the only family I've gone through with divorce. Normally, my families stay married happily ever after, but with the Pleasants, I just go ahead and get them divorced. Not every time I play, but I'd say it's about 60& chance it ends in divorce.

I like playing them because I never do play families that way, and they are so easily set up for it that it's not hard to do.

Daniel and Mary-Sue's relationship usually goes one of three ways.
1. she catches him cheating and breaks up with him
2. she catches him, but they work it out
3. Daniel breaks up with Kaylynn and Mary-Sue never finds out

My current game is going the third way, because Kaylynn wants to find a happy life and soulmate of her own, not just be a mistress

I usually keep them together under the assumption that they are in love with each other, but Daniel simply has a high sex drive whereas Mary-Sue has different priorities (sometimes to the point where imagine her aromantic). In my ideal simsworld Mary-Sue is not angry about Daniel sleeping with other, but about his dishonesty. Most of the time she doesn´t mind him sleeping around, as long as a) he is upfront about it with her and b) doesn´t get emotionally attached to his bedmates. (That rules out Kaylynn, who needs to understand that the partnership she yearns for is not to be found with either Daniel or Don.) Judging by their speech bubbles Mary-Sue and Daniel actively discuss his exploits in all lusty detail.
That´s the ideal route, but I don´t always take it. Once I had them divorce, each took one twin and Mary-Sue ended up depressed (=aspiration failure). My legacy founder (a romantic sim) of course knew of a way to get her back on her feet (aka into the platinium mood): a date. But even here Mary-Sue proved a true fortune sim, who usually replace the want chain of "talk-flirt-kiss-make out-woohoo" by "talk-flirt-kiss-make out-buy painting worth 45000 simoleons

I made Kaylynn playable, because I was hoping she might become pregnant. Mary Sue and Daniel are giving their marriage another shot. (In real life, I'd be screaming at her to leave! But it's a game.) Daniel hardly ever rolls wants to see Kaylynn any more, but since she lives in an apartment in Pleasantview now, we'll see if she tempts him back or moves on.

Lilith got pregnant from a risky runaway and lives in Belladonna Cove. Angela is at university in a dorm with Dirk Dreamer, Orlando Centowski, and Violet Jocque. Nobody has heard from Lilith in ages, and I think they are secretly quite relieved about that. Mary Sue and Daniel appear to be rediscovering the freedom they had in their youth; I think that they had the twins quite young, and unexpectedly. They tried to make it work in a respectable way, to prove to their parents that they weren't irresponsible teenagers, but they didn't really contain that façade. Now they're getting a chance to be irresponsible. And I don't think in a million years they are going to make the mistake of getting pregnant again

For the first time ever in the mega-hood I'm playing; Daniel didn't cheat and they didn't divorce.

Usually, Mary-sue catches him with Kaylynn and they break up. I like to think Kaylynn feels bad about breaking up a family, and also because Daniel makes it obvious he doesn't want anymore children they usually break up to (Kaylynn often marries Don) and Daniel ends up having a child with Nina and helping raise Angela and Dustin's child (I swear my game always makes Angela have a teen pregnancy) while Mary-Sue moves in to her parents condo with them and eventually inherits it when they die. This happens in every Pleasantview I've ever played, and in one Mary-Sue even found out she was pregnant with Daniel's children (Twins named Philip and Joyce) whom her parents helped her raise.

However, I'm only 1 rotation into my Megahood and I've decided to play them differently this time. Daniel still woohoo's Kaylynn but never gets caught. After that, Daniel's finished his midlife crisis and is so far just loving his wife and raising his children. Angela rolled romance secondary aspiration and Lilith knowledge. Angela currently has 3 lovers - Peter Ottomas, Dustin Broke and Rick Contrary - or did, but Dustin caught her cheating so they're on a break at the moment, not sure if it'll last forever but Sandra Roth has become increasingly interested in Dustin and his ambitious ways. I set Angela's risky-woohoo chances to 0 at the moment, just because she always seems to be a young Mother and I wanted to play it differently this time, but Angela is trying desperately to be the 'bad twin' so her parents stop thinking of her as perfect and putting so much pressure on her. Lilith broke up with Dirk, and is now dating Tybalt Capp - just because I always put her with Dirk and I'm trying to mix it up a bit.
I think in this game, Daniel and Mary-Sue might have another child.

In my previous Pleasantview, Mary-Sue caught Daniel cheating and kicked him out. He got a new place with Kaylynn, but then she got pregnant and Daniel made it clear he wasn't going to marry her and didn't particularly want another child, so she moved out on her own (she eventually married Martin Ruben of Sim State) and Daniel moved to an apartment, where he enjoyed romancing every interested female he came across, including Nina Caliente (he got her pregnant too), Heather Huffington, and Mary-Sue. No commitment this time, just some fun on the side, and that seemed to work for them. Anyway, Mary-Sue stayed in the house with the twins and worked on her career; her parents moved in with them to help out. Lilith and Angela went to college, Angela married Alexander Goth, and Lilith brought Dirk back home to live with Mary-Sue. Lilith was in love with him, but he had a wandering eye, and no boundaries; he flirted with her sister, her mother, and her grandmother (after Herb died). They then had triplets (which didn't improve their relationship much) who were toddlers when my computer died.

In my current Pleasantview, Daniel has fulfilled his LTW of 20 Woohoos without even once getting caught by Mary-Sue. They're elders and still married. Lilith lives with her fiancée Gavin Newson in her grandparents old home - they've both recently passed away - while Angela came home to her parents' house along with her husband David Ottomas. Angela and David have twin daughters, while Lilith and Gavin are both pregnant, he from an alien abduction.

As for the Lilith/Angela situation, my head-canon is that there was a case of twin-twin transfusion from Angela to Lilith. Lilith was born strong and healthy, while Angela was very small and they didn't know if she'd survive - that's why they named her Angela. Not only did they shower the tiny needy baby with love and attention, not knowing how long they'd have with her, but there was also an undertone towards Lilith of "you nearly killed your sister." However, Angela did survive, and grew up to have no serious health issues. She thrived on the affection coming her way. Lilith however was always an afterthought, frequently pushed aside whenever Angela so much as whimpered or sniffled. As a toddler, Lilith of course resented this and would try to shove Angela out of the way, or break things to get her parents' attention, but all she ever got was negative attention. Lilith's first words were greeted with "Not now, I'm busy" while Angela's were met with "Oh, my miracle baby is speaking!" (Perhaps slightly exaggerated, but you get the idea.) As she got older, Lilith started acting out more and more, and this did actually get her some attention, although only of the negative kind. Angela of course was jealous that she was getting any at all. Then Mary-Sue decided she wanted to have a career - she'd had to stay home to take care of Angela, and it sort of got to be a habit, but there's no logical reason not to work now that the girls are teenagers - which Angela saw as a betrayal because of course Mom was supposed to be home to take care of her every need, that's how it had always been, and why was she abandoning the family like this, and why was Dad letting her? So Angela's not happy with her parents anymore, and that's when she took up with Dustin - acting out was working for Lilith (in Angela's eyes, anyway) so why not give it a try?

I didn't do the scripted events for my current uberhood, so Daniel didn't have his want to woohoo Kaylynn, instead he kept having wants to be romantic with Mary Sue. Though, he does have romance sim wants sometimes, I don't tend to lock them.
I let them be... pleasant actually. Mary Sue got fired and I had Daniel go on a date with her to cheer her up - Mary Sue miscarried some time later, and Daniel helped out in the house. So, Daniel's quite a sweet man in my game and I might be planning to change his aspiration.

I don't know for sure what i'm going to do with them, haven't played them much yet. They aren't doing well though but just had another set of twins, they are infants. Angela and Lilith are still teens. I might break them up, I might not.

Daniel is cheating on her and they are all aware of it.

Maxis seems to have enjoyed torturing the Sims 1 families in The Sims 2, for drama reasons. I don't know why Daniel is a redhead, but anyway...

I don't like Daniel and Mary-Sue. I haven't decided whether to reconcile their relationship or break them up, but neither seems very likable to me. But I want their kids to be happy.

I'm not sure what I could even do with them since my Pleasantview only has ancestors of theirs from the 17th century known as Andy Pleasant with her husband Carol Walker until they married and he became Carol Pleasant.I'm playing an empty template of Pleasantview and all pf the pleasanview ancestors are my recreations and newer generations might not get the same names.My modern day versions might not even be anything more than a happ loving family with other struggles in their lives.

Looks like my old chestnut of a thread is pretty popular now...

Funnily enough, unless I'm going with the scripted event or I force him to be promiscuous for the purpose of drama, Daniel is always loyal to Mary-Sue. He constantly rolls wants for her and fears of losing her. As someone else mentioned, he does sometimes rolls typical romance sim wants, but I take that as either fleeting wants, or the game's coding for that particular aspiration.

Honestly, their relationship is doomed to fail. I had them make up the first time I played, but Daniel is just not a one woman kind of guy. He was always unhappy in that neighborhood. It's much easier to have them break up and move one out, possibly with one of the twins. Mary-Sue loves working and she's usually fine on her own. Daniel gets to woohoo with everyone he wants. The twins can't fight if they don't see each other. It's win-win.

My Pleasant ancestors are about 400 years before the EA versions and my version of Pleasantview is taking place as the colony was being established in the 17th century.I only have the Janowskys along with Andy Pleasant with her husband Carol who would arrive just in time to face the colony's first drought and have some hard times with crops doing poorly and needing more help in the dry contditions.

I still haven't figure out why Mary-Sue always roll wants to get back with Daniel after she divorces him.

There are sims who forgive cheating more easily than others, I suppose that sometimes we are a bit impulsive and we do not take advantage of the fact that there are sims who forgive more easily. (Which can create interesting stories with tons of drama.)