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Top Secret Researcher
#26 Old 17th Jun 2018 at 2:28 PM
Lol... movie's reproduction of reality is obviously extremely misrepresentative.
Europe, at least eastern, where I live, has qute a huge amount of forests. Whole Europe probably has same density of forests America does (not amount since US is way expansive than Europe). I don't see where swamps come in? Maybe cause of lot of rivers? Europe is a diverse place, with south part extremely mediterranean (sometimes even a bit tropic), and north part extremely mountanious while the middle is mildly temperate.
Cities here are not at all modern. Have you seen Sims 4 Windenburg? It's actually more accurate to how cities look in Germany, and even where I live. France also has old-style big cities. That's because europeans like preserving their cultural streets and traditional/historical look... a lot. Also, european cities are definitelly not bland. And believe me, european cities can be dense as heck. But it's true... U.S. cities are way more dense, that I don't see who would live in those.

I just don't see how can you imagine genericized European culture since there's a lot of them, distinct and strictly separated (this gets a bit questionable in 21st century). America is definitelly easier to be imagined as a genericized culture since it actually is a big blur of different cultures co-existing together and usually mixing over some period of time. But it's also a big place with even more cultures than Europe (way more) so generalizing those while trying to preserve some accuracy would just be pointless endeavour. Especially because time periods also define different cultures (or different cultures define them, whichever notion you like). With this globalisation set in motion, you get the notion of how one big, generic, global culture is like. I guess sims is going for that recently. But I expect that to change as well eventually.

What were we talking about? 50s? How to make some kind of viable portrayal of US 50s generic city look and feel in Sims 3 to be used as a 'Past' location?
Mad Poster
#27 Old 17th Jun 2018 at 3:29 PM
How to turn Sunset Valley into Pleasantville or 50s-era Hill Valley, basically. With a diner, a drive-in cinema, a whole load of churches and cul-de-sacs and, if you're as big on realism as I am, a bunch of "no coloreds allowed" signs to keep us grounded in the reality of the day.

I'm not sure how I feel about Windenburg, by the way. It's a very Americanized version of a European city, I feel. Too many antique buildings, too many cobblestone streets and inns and taverns....I mean sure there's a few ultramodern buildings and they look reasonably European, but the bigger picture I'm getting is that of a theme park, not a city. It doesn't rhyme with the places I go and live in, and I live in a medieval city. Of course, it's probably different in other countries.

Hypocrisy is only okay if I do it.
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Top Secret Researcher
#28 Old 17th Jun 2018 at 3:47 PM
Prague comes to mind when I look at windenburg. I've been there for some time. But even Prague is slowly becoming mix of modern and traditional, so much that it's starting to look a bit chaotic. I've also seen Vienna... that city's really traditional looking, it's rare to see anything modern stick out. And my cousin's living in Braunschweig which again is more of a town than a city, but even here in my country, towns are more modern than that. Overall, Germany's and neighbouring countries still mostly in traditional style. That's why I said that Windenburg is almost completely accurate. It's how German cities and towns look today.
Mad Poster
#29 Old 17th Jun 2018 at 4:54 PM
There are definitely large parts of Germany (and Germany's sphere of influence) where that style is prominent, yeah. Prague is what I imagine a "generic" European capital would look like. It's probably the most typically European of all European capitals.
European capitals are quite consistent, actually. There's strong trends in terms of urban density, of age, of zoning and of architecture. Look at Copenhagen, at Prague, at Amsterdam, at Berlin....Berlin is somewhat different due to its sheer size but you'll still find a general lack of ultra-high density buildings, in favour of the medium density that dominates the others. Arhus is Denmark's second city and has strong modern tendencies. It's too small for skyscrapers and stuff but there's a strong sense of urban renewal. I can't speak for Brno but it doesn't seem to disprove my point. Rotterdam and Frankfurt are two of Europe's greatest post-war metropolises, and have the skyline to show for it.
So if we're to assume that Windenburg is the capital of something, it makes a lot more sense. But as just another city, it's awfully overdone. There's more cobblestone in one Windenburg street than in my entire city.

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Forum Resident
#30 Old 17th Jun 2018 at 10:48 PM
The USA definitely has swampy areas, especially if you go to the more southeastern part of the country.
Department of Post-Mortem Communications
#31 Old 17th Jun 2018 at 11:12 PM Last edited by Don Babilon : 17th Jun 2018 at 11:22 PM.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mixa97sr
(...)That's why I said that Windenburg is almost completely accurate. It's how German cities and towns look today.
Allow me, please, to strongly disagree there, especially with regard to the accuracy claim.
I wouldn't even know where I had to drive to see something even remotely resembling Windenburg. Most of its buildings look more like mock Tudor, something you will definitely not find on the continent, unless it is faked. Admittedly it's placed in a landscape that, on the other hand, you won't find on the British Isles, so, in the end Windenburg is just that, a caricature of some middle European town.
Mad Poster
#32 Old 17th Jun 2018 at 11:30 PM
Exactly. It may look German to someone who isn't German, but everything about Windenburg screams genericized, unspecified European country made up by Americans.

Hypocrisy is only okay if I do it.
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Mad Poster
#33 Old 18th Jun 2018 at 12:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrijzePilion
Exactly. It may look German to someone who isn't German, but everything about Windenburg screams genericized, unspecified European country made up by Americans.


This is comical. You have wasted more time telling people what America is about based on fictional characters in movies, but yet you're going to bark about how a game is made by Americans. Unlike you, just because something is on a screen or on a monitor does not mean that everybody thinks that whatever is being shown represents something real.

If there is something specific I want to know about Germany, I have a pretty good idea of who to ask. That said, I find it more fun at the moment to find random bits of information scattered around the forums.

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Top Secret Researcher
#34 Old 18th Jun 2018 at 12:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lakme
The USA definitely has swampy areas, especially if you go to the more southeastern part of the country.


Indeed. There are large swamps in NC (the Great Dismal Swamp), South Carolina (the Congaree), Georgia (part of the Okefenokee), Florida (the other part of the Okefenokee, as well as the Everglades), and Louisiana (the Atchafalaya). (Also large ones in the rest of the country, like the Limberlost in Indiana.)
Instructor
#35 Old 18th Jun 2018 at 1:24 AM
Well, obviously any country is going to play off of stereotypes portrayed by its media, since actually traveling to those countries is a luxury not everyone can afford. In America's case, being American myself, we're very often misrepresented in just how many of us know and learn things about other cultures. And yes, you do really have people here who still think things like kimonos are still everyday attire in Japan, anyone from India works in IT and has poor English, that the Queen's day to day and all the royal intrigue is constantly at the forefront of everyone's mind in the UK, so on and so on. But it works both ways. Just as I know all of those things are false, I know other countries don't think every American is stupid, gullible, what-have-you. But in the end, it all goes back to the game's origin. EA is an American company and the games have typically lent themselves to the "standard" American ideas of foreign culture.

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Mad Poster
#36 Old 18th Jun 2018 at 1:57 AM
but if you change the future to be the past, then the past becomes the present, and the present becomes the future then wouldn't it make you your own grandpa?

Sanity is overrated.

Nitromon is a type of Pokemon encountered in the Pokemon Nitrome Version series.

There. Mystery solved.
Mad Poster
#37 Old 18th Jun 2018 at 2:00 AM
It goes against the idea of The Sims though doesn't it? The world of The Sims is universal, it appeals to everyone. There's a little bit of everything for everyone. The only way to accurately portray a location or a time period is to be utterly pedantic about accuracy. When the devs of a car racing game like Gran Turismo are building a new track, they send out a team to that track to measure it with laser equipment. When Rockstar designs an open world, they send out a team and they don't come back until every one of those people is an expert on the area.

In The Sims, however, it's entirely too obvious that no one went anywhere, and that their reference material was anecdotal at best. They misconstrue that universal, unspecific style of theirs into some ugly idea that they don't have to worry about the specifics of it. And it's one factor that's very noticeable within the context of the franchise's ongoing march downhill. It just strikes me as odd that they're a big studio who are making one of the world's most popular PC game, and yet they can't be bothered to do something everyone else does. Hell, I do better research than these guys. And it's just a symptom of the state of the franchise, sure, but you'd think they knew better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nitromon
but if you change the future to be the past, then the past becomes the present, and the present becomes the future then wouldn't it make you your own grandpa?

Not if your mom falls in love with you first.

Hypocrisy is only okay if I do it.
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Mad Poster
#38 Old 18th Jun 2018 at 2:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrijzePilion
Not if your mom falls in love with you first.


If my mom looks like Leah Thompson... I'm just saying.

Sanity is overrated.

Nitromon is a type of Pokemon encountered in the Pokemon Nitrome Version series.

There. Mystery solved.
Mad Poster
#39 Old 18th Jun 2018 at 2:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrijzePilion
It goes against the idea of The Sims though doesn't it? The world of The Sims is universal, it appeals to everyone. There's a little bit of everything for everyone. The only way to accurately portray a location or a time period is to be utterly pedantic about accuracy. When the devs of a car racing game like Gran Turismo are building a new track, they send out a team to that track to measure it with laser equipment. When Rockstar designs an open world, they send out a team and they don't come back until every one of those people is an expert on the area.

In The Sims, however, it's entirely too obvious that no one went anywhere, and that their reference material was anecdotal at best. They misconstrue that universal, unspecific style of theirs into some ugly idea that they don't have to worry about the specifics of it. And it's one factor that's very noticeable within the context of the franchise's ongoing march downhill. It just strikes me as odd that they're a big studio who are making one of the world's most popular PC game, and yet they can't be bothered to do something everyone else does. Hell, I do better research than these guys. And it's just a symptom of the state of the franchise, sure, but you'd think they knew better.



This isn't a first world problem. If this stuff bothers you that much, play TS1. You still won't be happy because the stuff in buy mode in that game will become something to rant about. Egg chairs be damned. The irony doesn't stop there. You complain, but yet you have a entire YouTube series based on a American made game that you are forever trying to project to hate, but yet, you continue to play it. And if you monetize your videos, you're also profiting from it.

Complain to the ears that need to hear it. Enough with the BS about how all Americans are stupid and think some fictional world in a sims game is a real place.

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I stole this line from a YT video comment. Cheers to the person that said it.
Mad Poster
#40 Old 18th Jun 2018 at 2:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nitromon
If my mom looks like Leah Thompson... I'm just saying.

Well my mom was more of a Molly Ringwald, but yeah, I get the idea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gargoyle Cat
Enough with the BS about how all Americans are stupid and think some fictional world in a sims game is a real place.

I don't know why you think I hate the game, or why anything you said in this sentence bears even a shred of truth, but I'm not going to argue about it with you.

Hypocrisy is only okay if I do it.
( Join my dumb Discord server if you're into the whole procrastination thing. But like, maybe tomorrow. )
Instructor
#41 Old 18th Jun 2018 at 2:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrijzePilion
It goes against the idea of The Sims though doesn't it? The world of The Sims is universal, it appeals to everyone. There's a little bit of everything for everyone. The only way to accurately portray a location or a time period is to be utterly pedantic about accuracy. When the devs of a car racing game like Gran Turismo are building a new track, they send out a team to that track to measure it with laser equipment. When Rockstar designs an open world, they send out a team and they don't come back until every one of those people is an expert on the area.

In The Sims, however, it's entirely too obvious that no one went anywhere, and that their reference material was anecdotal at best. They misconstrue that universal, unspecific style of theirs into some ugly idea that they don't have to worry about the specifics of it. And it's one factor that's very noticeable within the context of the franchise's ongoing march downhill. It just strikes me as odd that they're a big studio who are making one of the world's most popular PC game, and yet they can't be bothered to do something everyone else does. Hell, I do better research than these guys. And it's just a symptom of the state of the franchise, sure, but you'd think they knew better.

I do agree with you, make no mistake. But still, it's EA we're talking about. They hardly give their studios the resources they need in the first place, and as big as The Sims is, it still stands that life simulation has always been viewed as a niche genre. You'll find that game dev companies with a lot fewer constraints typically have entire portions of pre production that completely revolve around reviewing source material through reading, photographs, whatever could be useful. Studios under EA aren't typically given the freedom or resources to do so, because EA doesn't see the need to. They don't view their games as big budget AAA games. They operate on having games developed quickly and having the return be the most it possibly can at release.

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Mad Poster
#42 Old 18th Jun 2018 at 3:08 AM
I don't think EA has ever done a realistic open world. They always look at least somewhat wonky.

Hypocrisy is only okay if I do it.
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Instructor
#43 Old 18th Jun 2018 at 3:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrijzePilion
at least somewhat wonky.

Couldn't that apply to everything involved with them?

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Mad Poster
#44 Old 18th Jun 2018 at 3:38 AM
Well I just spent 2 hours trying to make 5 Sims dance simultaneously. And in the EA game I last played before TS3, the world suddenly unloaded while I was in the middle of it. So yeah, I'd say it's a theme.

Hypocrisy is only okay if I do it.
( Join my dumb Discord server if you're into the whole procrastination thing. But like, maybe tomorrow. )
Instructor
#45 Old 18th Jun 2018 at 3:52 AM
All of this about other cultures has reminded me of how I've always wanted to have an an Asian inspired world in a Sims game that *isn't* Shang Simla. Something like Tokyo or Hong Kong.

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Mad Poster
#46 Old 18th Jun 2018 at 2:17 PM
Yeah, something that isn't Shang Simla or fucking San Myshuno. I've said it before and I'll say it again. I picked up that pack for €3, but I stil felt ripped off.

Hypocrisy is only okay if I do it.
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Site Helper
#47 Old 18th Jun 2018 at 7:00 PM
In real life, people don't put their toddler at the top of the stairs to go get a book from the downstairs bookshelf to read to the kid, then complain that the kid is blocking their way and they can't read the book after all. (unless, of course, they really didn't want to read to the kid and are just looking for an excuse. In which case, any onlooker older than the kid is going to point out that you have just come up with one of the lamest excuses anyone has ever heard, and it's time to read to your kid now.)
Police don't politely step aside for the burglar who is leaving the house, and then explain that the burglar seems to have gotten away.
Birthday cakes with only 2 candles on them don't start a house fire.
Someone who wants to go fishing before 6 am doesn't go to the fishing hole at 4 am and then pull out a book to read by starlight instead of actually fishing.
And I don't care HOW absent-minded you are, heading to the bedroom for a bit of woohoo does not cause most people to forget what they were doing once they are in the bed. Killing the mood by suddenly out of the blue asking if the electric bill got paid? Guilty! But completely forgetting why we got naked in bed together? No way!


If they were doing that kind of thing in a world that DIDN'T look like someone made it up out of stereotypes it would be even weirder.

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Mad Poster
#48 Old 18th Jun 2018 at 7:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost sdoj
If they were doing that kind of thing in a world that DIDN'T look like someone made it up out of stereotypes it would be even weirder.

I don't know, honestly. It's very easy to accept the imperfections of Sims. They're a computer program. We all know they're not actually real people with any semblance of sentience or intelligence. There's no such thing as "artificial intelligence"; it's just a bunch of if statements and statistics.

But I'd rather have wacky overdone people in a real world than wacky overdone people in a wacky overdone world. The former has been known to be more effective, because us real humans find that juxtaposition to be inherently humourous. The more realistic, the more relatable. The more relatable, the better a canvas for portraying a story or situation. One of the most common ingredients in humour is that of something unusual or unconventional happening within a situation we recognize. Satire, in essence, is an exaggeration of that which is already unusual. So I think The Sims works better in a realistic environment. That's how I try to play it anyway, and it seems to entertain me personally just fine. For me, The Sims is an actively funny game because the Sims themselves provide all the comedy. They violate my natural expectations of a particular situation or environment that I recognise from my real life.

Hypocrisy is only okay if I do it.
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Department of Post-Mortem Communications
#49 Old 18th Jun 2018 at 7:23 PM Last edited by Don Babilon : 18th Jun 2018 at 7:33 PM.
And to think that it was me who started all this by merely suggesting that the hover train could be used in a future-is-the-past world as a tram system

But in case the original author of this thread is still interested, I think that in order for a world to be treated as a future world the relevant byte no. 6 in resource UNKN 0x296A6259 would have to have its value changed to 04, unless I completely misunderstood the principle as demonstrated in this thread: http://modthesims.info/showthread.php?t=424374
Mad Poster
#50 Old 18th Jun 2018 at 7:33 PM
Well I think it can, but I'm not sure how it'll look. The track is predefined in plain-text data, using waypoints, so there's no reason it wouldn't be able to run at street level, following the streets or decorative train tracks. Assuming the vehicle is made up of a single part, like the hovertrains and also like old-school trams, I strongly suspect it's entirely possible.

All you need is a custom track layout, a custom tram station with a custom tram model and custom sound effects. I'd recommend yanking the tram model from Transport Fever, because that game has very high quality vehicle models which are up to TS3 spec with little to no modifications.

Hypocrisy is only okay if I do it.
( Join my dumb Discord server if you're into the whole procrastination thing. But like, maybe tomorrow. )
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