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Instructor
Original Poster
#1 Old 22nd Mar 2021 at 10:52 PM Last edited by echoweaver : 23rd Mar 2021 at 8:59 PM.
Default The Pets Expansion Expansion
I've noticed that MsPat and Lyralei and some other modders have created progress/idea threads for th. I'd love brainstorming from the community if anyone is interested in this subject.

The beginning of my story is that my 10yo kid started a Warrior Cats Challenge. I got into finding mods and cc for it, and I was appalled to see how much of the challenge involved using a human sim to do things for the cats. It drilled home for me the problem I see with the Pets expansion -- dogs and cats just can't do very much. They're fun to build and look at, but I very quickly end up leaving them on autonomy to run around and be eye candy.

Pets have exactly one skill, Hunting. Their wish trees don't go very deep. They don't have LTWs. Food they obtain by hunting themselves provides so little Hunger motive by default that it's irrelevant to their survival -- humans must feed them. Cats can catch minor pets for their humans, and dogs can search out and dig out collectables for same. Dogs can also be taught skills, which look cute.

I sketched out a mod outlining what I thought would make the Warrior Cats Challenge a more interesting challenge that's actually about cats, and that has grown into custom skill ideas like the fishing skill, which I put up in Feedback (https://modthesims.info/showthread.php?t=653684). I've since received feedback that persistence is a thing. Oops . So I'm fixing that.

In addition to the Fishing skill outlined on the feedback post, I'm currently working on a Fighting skill.

Features of that skill that are currently under development:
  • Skill for cats and dogs.
  • Skill is used for deciding who wins pet-pet and pet-human fights. The Pets EP currently uses the Hunting skill, which they use for all skill checks with pets.
  • Build skill by fighting, guarding, and goofing around.
  • In addition to just fighting, add interaction to specifically drive stranger/enemy sims off the lot. Not just the Postman! Either replace the current Guard interaction with this one or provide a new interaction.
  • Fights can result in wounds of three levels: Minor, Serious, and Grave. These wounds become less likely as Fight skill increases. The wound moodlets speed up hunger and fatigue motives.
  • If a pet passes out or loses a fight with an active Grave Wound moodlet, the pet dies. This will be tunable for players who don't want their kitties and puppies to have a chance of death

In conversation with other players, the idea of human medical care for wounds came up. That could straightforwardly balloon out to diseases and even a vet career.

Another suggestion was LTWs. I've heard tell that someone has done a proof-of-concept for Pet LTWs, and it's relatively straightforward. That begs the question: What are some good LTWs for pets?

Thirdly, yesterday on a Sims Discord, we had a blast sharing videos of the pet careers from TS2. I hear tell that there has also been a proof-of-concept done in giving pets careers, and it can be done. TS2 had three careers. Would it be worth looking at pet careers?

What other stuff might make pets more fun?

Echo Weaver's Simblr: http://echoweaver.tumblr.com/
A portrait in stubbornness - Playing the same legacy since 2009
Sample a Brave Legacy: http://sims3sample.illation.net
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#2 Old 22nd Mar 2021 at 11:08 PM
All sounds awesome . Any mod including the word 'expansion' immediately has my interest haha.

Would be great to see this stuff, love the idea of maybe having a vets career down the line but the skill additions & depth to pets will be much welcomed for sure!

Be interested to see if you can create careers for pets! Or at least some kindof faux career system would be cool!

All the best!

SSD

Creating Sim State Expansion for The Sims 3. :)
Instructor
Original Poster
#3 Old 22nd Mar 2021 at 11:28 PM Last edited by echoweaver : 24th Mar 2021 at 6:18 PM.
Mechanics for witch familiars maybe?? I think there's currently a moodlet or something.

ETA: Sims wiki defines some interesting possibilities for familiars in Sims 4 https://sims.fandom.com/wiki/Familiar

Am I correct in remembering that dogs have a chance of saving their masters from Grim?

Echo Weaver's Simblr: http://echoweaver.tumblr.com/
A portrait in stubbornness - Playing the same legacy since 2009
Sample a Brave Legacy: http://sims3sample.illation.net
Instructor
Original Poster
#4 Old 24th Mar 2021 at 6:06 PM
I'm delighted that my testing indicates that any ghost shader can be applied to pets, even though they only get "good pet" blue and "bad pet" red by EA. Sims wiki says pets can also die by Ambitions meteor and get that shader.

This brings up a miscellaneous fixes category, too, where pets can starve to death rather than be picked up by the social worker. Dogs can swim. Sims wiki indicates that pets can't drown, however. In other miscellaneous minor changes, I'd like to port swimming over to cats and allow both to drown.

Cats can swim just as well as dogs can. The just don't LIKE it . It'd be appropriate for cats to get a negative moodlet while swimming. I have converted adult sim animations to child. It's worth at least trying to see if the same technique would convert a dog animation to a cat.

Echo Weaver's Simblr: http://echoweaver.tumblr.com/
A portrait in stubbornness - Playing the same legacy since 2009
Sample a Brave Legacy: http://sims3sample.illation.net
Field Researcher
#5 Old 24th Mar 2021 at 8:04 PM
Can't wait to see dogs swim! And yes cats should legitimately hate the swimming, haha.

So excited for all the discoveries you're making! TS3 pets need all the love they can get.
Virtual gardener
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#6 Old 25th Mar 2021 at 12:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissPat
Can't wait to see dogs swim! And yes cats should legitimately hate the swimming, haha.

So excited for all the discoveries you're making! TS3 pets need all the love they can get.
Haha seconding this! :D years ago I was working on an active career for vets though, although I would have given you the code if I still had it...  but I'm already loving what you're suggesting!

Now, I will say, as horrible as it sounds :p I remember with the sims 2, I'd have a starters house where basically any kind of money was super necessary. I feel like ts3 is as well but slightly easier in that regard but it's still hard :p.  So it would be awesome to have the ability of pets going to work as well!  I was just wondering if that would be a cool thing to do as well (or even people liking that idea) to give pets a career? 

I do also like the idea that pets can be effective with witches. Because it's not just cats, depending on what book you're reading :p Now, from reading this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat-s%C3%ACth something that could be created into a gameplay thingy is this:

Quote:
Some people believed that the cat-sìth was a witch that could transform voluntarily into its cat form and back nine times.[1] If one of these witches chose to go back into their cat form for the ninth time, they would remain a cat for the rest of their lives.[1] It is believed by some that this is how the idea of a cat having nine lives originated.[1]
Not sure about the ninth thing but that's yours and others decision to make lol :p but I think it's already a thing where if a sim owns a cat as a witch, that they can already generate their magic bar quicker? But I do like the idea of familiars to ts3! 

Quote:
Am I correct in remembering that dogs have a chance of saving their masters from Grim?
Yep they can save them!
Instructor
Original Poster
#7 Old 25th Mar 2021 at 4:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissPat
Can't wait to see dogs swim! And yes cats should legitimately hate the swimming, haha.

So excited for all the discoveries you're making! TS3 pets need all the love they can get.


I didn't make dogs swim. Wiki says they can swim, but only in swimming pools. I'm looking for the code now, but it certainly seems like it ought to be straightforward to enable it for all bodies of water. The ability to port the animation to cats is less of a sure thing .

Re familiars: I rather like the idea that a familiar could save their master from death under some circumstances. In Sims 4, it looks like they can provide extra spell energy. Seems like there should be more .

I am closing in on a releasable set of features for pet fighting. I've never had a dog chase a mailman off the lot. I'd like to make that an interaction for a pet and any stranger human.

Echo Weaver's Simblr: http://echoweaver.tumblr.com/
A portrait in stubbornness - Playing the same legacy since 2009
Sample a Brave Legacy: http://sims3sample.illation.net
Instructor
Original Poster
#8 Old 26th Mar 2021 at 2:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by echoweaver
I didn't make dogs swim. Wiki says they can swim, but only in swimming pools. I'm looking for the code now, but it certainly seems like it ought to be straightforward to enable it for all bodies of water.


Any there it is, confusingly named "DoggySwimHere" and "DoggySwimAround" just to make it hard to search for.

I think the only thing I'll need to do for dogs is change the terrain test to include all bodies of water.

There's also "DoggyGetInPool," which I assume is some kind of adorable jump and splash. I'll have to see how the interaction goes without it, since it won't make sense for locations with a natural sloping entry.

Echo Weaver's Simblr: http://echoweaver.tumblr.com/
A portrait in stubbornness - Playing the same legacy since 2009
Sample a Brave Legacy: http://sims3sample.illation.net
#9 Old 26th Mar 2021 at 6:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by echoweaver
What other stuff might make pets more fun?


I've been wanting for years to see playable large birds. Anyone who deals with parrots knows how much personality they have. Imagine having destruction options like "chew the furniture" or "poop on x person", or playful like "prank call" once a speech stat is high enough!
Instructor
Original Poster
#10 Old 26th Mar 2021 at 3:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackjackGabbiani
I've been wanting for years to see playable large birds. Anyone who deals with parrots knows how much personality they have. Imagine having destruction options like "chew the furniture" or "poop on x person", or playful like "prank call" once a speech stat is high enough!


Oh, that would be brilliant.

The animations used for the shoulder dragons look like they're usable for birds, so that would give some options for expansion.

Echo Weaver's Simblr: http://echoweaver.tumblr.com/
A portrait in stubbornness - Playing the same legacy since 2009
Sample a Brave Legacy: http://sims3sample.illation.net
#11 Old 28th Mar 2021 at 5:20 AM
Also I think it would be fun to be able to vacation with your pets, even though that would require people to edit base camps to get supplies in there beforehand. Still, I think enough people do that anyway that you could get away with just adding a note reminding people to do so.
Instructor
Original Poster
#12 Old 28th Mar 2021 at 10:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackjackGabbiani
Also I think it would be fun to be able to vacation with your pets, even though that would require people to edit base camps to get supplies in there beforehand. Still, I think enough people do that anyway that you could get away with just adding a note reminding people to do so.


I'm not sure, but I THINK this is something that can be enabled using NRaas Traveler. I know that it can enable pregnant sim and toddler travel.

Echo Weaver's Simblr: http://echoweaver.tumblr.com/
A portrait in stubbornness - Playing the same legacy since 2009
Sample a Brave Legacy: http://sims3sample.illation.net
Mad Poster
#13 Old 29th Mar 2021 at 1:04 AM Last edited by jje1000 : 29th Mar 2021 at 1:14 AM.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackjackGabbiani
I've been wanting for years to see playable large birds. Anyone who deals with parrots knows how much personality they have. Imagine having destruction options like "chew the furniture" or "poop on x person", or playful like "prank call" once a speech stat is high enough!

Quote:
Originally Posted by echoweaver
Oh, that would be brilliant.

The animations used for the shoulder dragons look like they're usable for birds, so that would give some options for expansion.

Seconding this- big birds like parrots are by all means smarter and longer-living than dogs and cats, almost being the equivalent of a small toddler. Secondly, they can have big and unique personalities as well! I think that making them playable is probably too hard, but porting the dragon interactions/animations over to large birds and maybe giving them traits based on the dragons (green likes to collect, purple likes to talk, red is aggressive) would be tremendous in expanding their scope.

I also have the suspicion that they used the big bird rig as a basis for the dragon to save work (since their shapes and sizes are similar)- hopefully that might make some of process easier!

As of now, big birds can fly around enclosed spaces on their own, right? I wonder what other things could be done to increase their freedom?

Secondly, I wonder what autonomy cats and dogs have that can be extended to make them more realistic, independent and less of an accessory for sims? Personally, I haven't played with them enough to form a solid opinion, but I am curious to see how they can be improved.
Instructor
Original Poster
#14 Old 29th Mar 2021 at 5:18 PM Last edited by echoweaver : 29th Mar 2021 at 7:09 PM.
Yes, I missed the part about making birds playable. That's far beyond my knowledge . OTOH, expanding their gameplay seems possible.

I agree about the shoulder dragons vs birds. About half the shoulder dragon animations are clearly the same as big birds. I've only ever played with a red shoulder dragon, so I'm not familiar with the interactions of the various colors. A lot of it focuses on things like blasting your enemy with fireballs, which is of limited utility.

One thing I'd really like is the ability to carry a bird/dragon on your shoulder while you walk around without sticking it back in your bag of holding every time you engage in any interaction.

ETA: The animations from the shoulder dragons are not as inspiring as I'd hoped.

Still, I could imagine big birds grabbing small items around the lot and hoarding them, for example.

Echo Weaver's Simblr: http://echoweaver.tumblr.com/
A portrait in stubbornness - Playing the same legacy since 2009
Sample a Brave Legacy: http://sims3sample.illation.net
Instructor
Original Poster
#15 Old 3rd May 2021 at 7:48 PM
I stumbled upon an ancient community built around improving pets. There weren't a ton of threads, but what's in there has some great suggestions. I'm pondering the animal breeder career... https://modthesims.info/forumdispla...546&groupid=690

(I think that's visible to people who didn't join the group?)

Animal breeding might be something that could be handled with a self-employed career with a few added interactions. I don't know much about what the game can determine about the "purebred" status of a pet, though this thread indicates that it tracks something for dogs at least.

The thread focuses largely on computer interactions. There's also the possibility of scamming customers, which I love.
A trait-based interaction for our more ethically-questionable sims.

Echo Weaver's Simblr: http://echoweaver.tumblr.com/
A portrait in stubbornness - Playing the same legacy since 2009
Sample a Brave Legacy: http://sims3sample.illation.net
Mad Poster
#16 Old 6th May 2021 at 5:39 AM
One comment- noticed a comment regarding littlemssam's foster care system for TS4 (https://littlemssam.tumblr.com/post...he-lms-foster)-, and I was wondering if something like that might work for pets in TS3?

So basically it would built upon the in-game adoption system, but you'd only be taking care of a pet for a period of time before it gets adopted out to its metaphorical 'forever home'.
Instructor
Original Poster
#17 Old 7th May 2021 at 12:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jje1000
One comment- noticed a comment regarding littlemssam's foster care system for TS4 (https://littlemssam.tumblr.com/post...he-lms-foster)-, and I was wondering if something like that might work for pets in TS3?

So basically it would built upon the in-game adoption system, but you'd only be taking care of a pet for a period of time before it gets adopted out to its metaphorical 'forever home'.


Huh! That's almost like a daycare career for pets. Doesn't pay in the real world. You do it for love. But who knows in Sims world...

Echo Weaver's Simblr: http://echoweaver.tumblr.com/
A portrait in stubbornness - Playing the same legacy since 2009
Sample a Brave Legacy: http://sims3sample.illation.net
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