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Test Subject
#51 Old 11th Aug 2005 at 10:53 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Crammyboy
Quite a few things are referenced by name. The name is used to generate the instance and subtype (High instance) of the animation resource. So if you change the name of the animation resource in SimPE then you have to click the fix TGI button and commit. Then you have to edit the text list with the new name of the animation.

There is a program called disasim2 found here which will disassemble package files, and the source code contains useful information on what to set in the operand for most things (You need to understand C++).

Also there is a number of tutorials on Variousimmers by Dizzy2 (Found here) that are useful for beginners.


Thanks for the further info and links. I actually dl'd the dis. program awhile ago.

Mike
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Nearly alive
Original Poster
#52 Old 11th Aug 2005 at 10:58 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Rascal
I know I'm thick, and I know this is in the wrong place, but I need to ask a question and I can't figure out how to make a post. You guys obviously know what you are doing so please take pity and help me


I don`t know what you want help with?
You say about not being able to make a post but you have made one or I wouldn`t be reading it.
So what is it you want help with?
Lab Assistant
#53 Old 12th Aug 2005 at 12:24 AM Last edited by Crammyboy : 12th Aug 2005 at 12:42 AM.
Miche.

I have been poking around and found out a few things.

First I was thinking that the sim must be mirrored down the middle. If you can animate the right arm and then play the animation on the left or right arm with mirrored results, then the bone rotations and translations must be mirrored down the middle. (Would this be only on the Y-axis?)

Second I found a resource node, auskel_cres, that doesn't seem to be used by anything (or refer to anything) which may be used as the basis for animation.

I also found differences between what translations and rotations where reported in the GMDC and the CRES of the same mesh.

for example:

amBodyOpenShirtPants has the following for joint 3 (spine 0)

GMDC: trans=0.00, -1.13, 0.14 rot=(x=0.00, y=0.71, z=0.71, a=180.0)
CRES: trans=0.00, 0.12, -0.04 rot=(x=0.00,y=0.00,z=0.00,a=0.0)

The CRES auskel_cres would appear to be the same as amBodyOpenShirtPants_cres (from the point of view of the skeleton), although I didn't examine the entire thing.
Lab Assistant
#54 Old 12th Aug 2005 at 1:03 AM
This is so cool...finally animations....I have so many great ideas...
Lab Assistant
#55 Old 12th Aug 2005 at 9:36 AM
if you want to make an avanced post click "Go Advanced" then fill in the text box with your post, then click submit reply...
Lab Assistant
#56 Old 12th Aug 2005 at 10:03 AM
Quote: Originally posted by mstram
What is the procedure to import the smd files into Fragmotion?

I imported the body mesh, then used merge to import the somersault smd, and it ask which object(s) should be excluded. I just clicked OK, to take the defaults, but that didn't seem to import the animation.

Mike



Um, i didn't work it out... help!
Test Subject
#57 Old 12th Aug 2005 at 10:05 AM
i know this is the start of good things to come
what do u need for the progams ?
like to help out but dont know what to do ?
do this mine that {wink wink nock nock say no more } be out then soon or later {long time}
wold it work with ep { nl}

[SIZE=4][COLOR=Red]"who the fool the fool who follow the fool or the fool"[/COLOR][/SIZE]
Instructor
#58 Old 12th Aug 2005 at 1:40 PM
um,sorry for asking this but, this may be a VERY stupid question, but, do i use the 'simbody' file to make anim's, and if i use milkshape, how can i make an animation in it?
Test Subject
#59 Old 12th Aug 2005 at 4:47 PM Last edited by mstram : 13th Aug 2005 at 12:39 AM.
Quote: Originally posted by WildTeamwin
Um, i didn't work it out... help!


1 - File / Import the simbody.smd file
select Half-Life SMD files from the file type (or Half-Life 2 .. it doesn't seem to matter.. I stand to be corrected though )

2 File/Merge - 'summersault.smd',
just click "ok" to accept the defaults of "exclusions" on the merge dialog

If you click play forward, nothing happens right?

You have to select/click the somersault animation item in list of animations on the upper left side of the screen. Now click play forward and you should see the animation.

To animate the bones, you select a bone from the Skeleton (/Model/Texture/Schema), then move the time slider past frame 1, then
select the animate/rotate key or translate key from the tools box. You can only use the translate tool on the root_trans bone.

To clear / or set keyframes manually, open the Windows/KeyFrame editor window. Select a bone / time from the grid and then you can either delete or create keys there.

Download the help file, there is a tutorial in there how to create an animation.

Mike
Nearly alive
Original Poster
#60 Old 13th Aug 2005 at 12:31 PM Last edited by Miche : 13th Aug 2005 at 2:23 PM.
Quote: Originally posted by Crammyboy
Miche.

I have been poking around and found out a few things.

First I was thinking that the sim must be mirrored down the middle. If you can animate the right arm and then play the animation on the left or right arm with mirrored results, then the bone rotations and translations must be mirrored down the middle. (Would this be only on the Y-axis?)

Second I found a resource node, auskel_cres, that doesn't seem to be used by anything (or refer to anything) which may be used as the basis for animation.

I also found differences between what translations and rotations where reported in the GMDC and the CRES of the same mesh.

for example:

amBodyOpenShirtPants has the following for joint 3 (spine 0)

GMDC: trans=0.00, -1.13, 0.14 rot=(x=0.00, y=0.71, z=0.71, a=180.0)
CRES: trans=0.00, 0.12, -0.04 rot=(x=0.00,y=0.00,z=0.00,a=0.0)

The CRES auskel_cres would appear to be the same as amBodyOpenShirtPants_cres (from the point of view of the skeleton), although I didn't examine the entire thing.



Thanks for that information.

I`ve stopped using that simbody with the twisted arm and am using the one you used in the simtest3.
I`m now making some progress on correcting the problems with the arms but have came across a problem that at the moment I`m not quite sure how to get around.

As the game`s animation files uses euler rotations (rather than Quaternions or angle/axis rotations) it matters in which order those rotations are applied. The game seems to apply them in the xzy order, while animations which are made with 3d program (or at least the smd ones I`ve looked at made with Milkshape,fragmotion and XSI mod tool) use the xyz order.

So this is leading to differences in the game if a bone is rotated in both the y and z axis. To see a example of this, one of the frames in Crammyboy`s animation has the l_upperarm set at angles (xyz) 61.5, 79,48. Now if you load the milkshape file that Crammyboy uploaded earlier (simtest3) and apply that rotation to the l_upperarm by entering those figures in the rotation option box, with the origin and local options selected, you will see the position that Crammyboy`s animation wanted the arm to be in.

Now if you undo that rotation and click on the y button so the joint isn`t rotated around the y axis. Then click the rotate button , and then reselect the y axis but deselect the x and z axis and click rotate again, you will see the position that the bone ends up in the game (when using the lastest version of my converter , which I haven`t posted yet).

So I need to know if there is a way of changing the order of the axis in milkshape and other programs.

The only other thing I can think of at the moment is restricting bones to rotations of two axis. So if anyone can think of something that I`m missing.
Lab Assistant
#61 Old 13th Aug 2005 at 1:39 PM
The meshes that we have been using have been exported using the XZY rotation export format from simpe. Have you tried a mesh exported XYZ rotation?
Nearly alive
Original Poster
#62 Old 13th Aug 2005 at 1:43 PM Last edited by Miche : 13th Aug 2005 at 2:23 PM.
Quote: Originally posted by Crammyboy
The meshes that we have been using have been exported using the XZY rotation export format from simpe. Have you tried a mesh exported XYZ rotation?


Yes some of the ones I have been using are with that order. But that isn`t related to how animations will work. That just makes a sim either lay down or stand up in milkshape (and other programs depending on if they treat z or y as up)

The animation order is different. I`ve checked the milkshape forums and that certainly seems to only support animations being applied in the xyz order. This is the reason most people perfer Quaternions or angle/axis over euler angles (plus you can get gimbal lock with euler angles).
Lab Assistant
#63 Old 13th Aug 2005 at 1:57 PM
I take my hat off in awe of you guys. I used to be into 3d animation in a past life (before I swapped hobbies for parenthood), so I know just enough to appreciate the great stuff you're doing. Keep it up!
Nearly alive
Original Poster
#64 Old 13th Aug 2005 at 2:03 PM
I`ve uploaded a new version of the converter it corrects some of the problems with the arms (but not all of them due to the axis order problem, and also I might have not fixed all other problems with them).

I also need to check if the spines , neck and head are being rotated in the correct direction.

The simbody file has also been changed to correct some problems with twisted bones. So please use this file rather than the old one.
Field Researcher
#65 Old 13th Aug 2005 at 3:56 PM
until we can import the smd in 3ds .. i'm out
Test Subject
#66 Old 13th Aug 2005 at 5:52 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Max3D
until we can import the smd in 3ds .. i'm out


Here you go :

http://www.chaosincarnate.net/canno...?program=3dsmax

Personally I'll be going with the FREE XSI Mod tool

Mike
Nearly alive
Original Poster
#67 Old 13th Aug 2005 at 7:07 PM
Even though I`m sure I checked some bodies exported from Simple with xyz , I`m now not so sure.

So could someone just double check with the new converter if you export a body from Simple using the xyz order if there are still problems with the arms when rotating a bone around both the y and z axis
Field Researcher
#68 Old 13th Aug 2005 at 7:38 PM
@ mstram
personally i've spent 4000€ in 3DS max and upgrades a i didn't spend more time to learn free and trerrbile appz
Test Subject
#69 Old 13th Aug 2005 at 7:56 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Max3D
@ mstram
personally i've spent 4000€ in 3DS max and upgrades a i didn't spend more time to learn free and trerrbile appz


First, *you're welcome* for the links that I sent you

Secondly, XSI-Mod is hardly a terrible app. Do you even know what it is ?

Mike
Nearly alive
Original Poster
#70 Old 13th Aug 2005 at 7:57 PM Last edited by Miche : 13th Aug 2005 at 8:28 PM.
Quote: Originally posted by Max3D
@ mstram
personally i've spent 4000€ in 3DS max and upgrades a i didn't spend more time to learn free and trerrbile appz


While I`m not saying you should change or anything or that Softimage`s XSI is better than 3ds or not.

It`s not a terrible appz. It`s a free version of the full XSI. XSI is on a very similar level to maya and 3ds. Those 3 are the "big three" of the 3d programs.

It`s just like there is both a free version of maya (PLE) and a free version of 3ds (gmax), there is a free version of XSI (mod tool).

Maya PLE is as far as I know not of anyuse for creating anything to be used (as it supports no standard formats). gmax has limited support for a few formats. But what makes XSI mod tool different (for our purpose anyway) is that it supports the smd format (athough when it comes to smd animations there are a few differences which I will need to add support for in the converter).

The reason both gmax and XSI mod tool can afford to give away a free program with (limited ) support for saving in some useful files is because they charge a LOT of money for making a plugin for them. Value when making half life paid for the plugin for the mod tool, so that players could make new characters for the game. The rumoured cost of the rights to make a plugin such as that is around $80,000. (but I actually think it was likely to be more than this)

While I can`t say which program is better (Maya, 3ds max or XSI ) , from what I`ve read, the animation support in XSI is meant to be among the best. And I know at least until a couple of years ago, the behaviour plugin (this allows the character to have some A.I and is similar to the sort of program used to make the massive armies in lord of the rings) for XSI was the best by far in the price range (meaning that maybe MASSIVE (the program used to make lord of the rings) might have been better but the price of that program was again rumoured to be in the $100,000`s )
Test Subject
#71 Old 13th Aug 2005 at 8:13 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Miche

It`s not a terrible appz. It`s a free version of the full XSI. XSI is only a very similar level to maya and 3ds. Those 3 are the "big three" of the 3d programs.

....


Miche,
Thanks for those details. I decided to just ask a possibly rhetorical question

But for anyone else here that is not familiar with XSI-Mod, I'll echo Miche's comments and expand a bit. It is a fabulous program, and if the SMD "quirks", or some other file format can be created, it IMO is the most powerful FREE app that TS2 modders will find.

There is also a TON of FREE documentation / tutorials and sample files on the softimage site !

Mike
Field Researcher
#72 Old 13th Aug 2005 at 10:28 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Miche
Even though I`m sure I checked some bodies exported from Simple with xyz , I`m now not so sure.

So could someone just double check with the new converter if you export a body from Simple using the xyz order if there are still problems with the arms when rotating a bone around both the y and z axis


Unfortunatly i havn t the time for more testing today but yesterday i exported with simpes last version as you in xyz milkshape asci file, made a 20 frames anim and after translation of the smd file to anim the arms moved backwards the body in the game. I couldn t test with your updated version yet.
My problem is even that i don t know how to cut the animation in milkshape, there were too many frames at the end.

So, if you want, here is one smd file of that.
Attached files:
File Type: rar  para_testexercise02.rar (8.2 KB, 69 downloads) - View custom content
Test Subject
#73 Old 13th Aug 2005 at 11:33 PM Last edited by Hellmaster : 13th Aug 2005 at 11:36 PM.
Default strange
hello. I've done an animation with fragmotion and if I try to convert it with the converter there's an error telling me:
Quote:
See the end of this message for details on invoking
just-in-time (JIT) debugging instead of this dialog box.

************** Exception Text **************
System.Security.SecurityException: Request for the permission of type System.Security.Permissions.FileIOPermission, mscorlib, Version=1.0.5000.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=b77a5c561934e089 failed.
at System.Security.CodeAccessSecurityEngine.CheckHelper(PermissionSet grantedSet, PermissionSet deniedSet, CodeAccessPermission demand, PermissionToken permToken)
at System.Security.CodeAccessSecurityEngine.Check(PermissionToken permToken, CodeAccessPermission demand, StackCrawlMark& stackMark, Int32 checkFrames, Int32 unrestrictedOverride)
at System.Security.CodeAccessSecurityEngine.Check(CodeAccessPermission cap, StackCrawlMark& stackMark)
at System.Security.CodeAccessPermission.Demand()
at System.Windows.Forms.IntSecurity.DemandFileIO(FileIOPermissionAccess access, String fileName)
at System.Windows.Forms.FileDialog.get_FileName()
at anim_edit.MainForm.read_smd(Int32 firs_bone)
at anim_edit.MainForm.Button1Click(Object sender, EventArgs e)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.OnClick(EventArgs e)
at System.Windows.Forms.Button.OnClick(EventArgs e)
at System.Windows.Forms.Button.OnMouseUp(MouseEventArgs mevent)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WmMouseUp(Message& m, MouseButtons button, Int32 clicks)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.ButtonBase.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.Button.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.ControlNativeWindow.OnMessage(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.ControlNativeWindow.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr hWnd, Int32 msg, IntPtr wparam, IntPtr lparam)


************** Loaded Assemblies **************
mscorlib
Assembly Version: 1.0.5000.0
Win32 Version: 1.1.4322.2032
CodeBase: file:///c:/windows/microsoft.net/framework/v1.1.4322/mscorlib.dll
----------------------------------------
System
Assembly Version: 1.0.5000.0
Win32 Version: 1.1.4322.2032
CodeBase: file:///c:/windows/assembly/gac/system/1.0.5000.0__b77a5c561934e089/system.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Drawing
Assembly Version: 1.0.5000.0
Win32 Version: 1.1.4322.2032
CodeBase: file:///c:/windows/assembly/gac/system.drawing/1.0.5000.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/system.drawing.dll
----------------------------------------
anim-edit
Assembly Version: 1.0.2050.22756
Win32 Version: 1.0.2050.22756
CodeBase: file:///O:/Desktop/simsanim/Anim_converter.exe
----------------------------------------
System.Windows.Forms
Assembly Version: 1.0.5000.0
Win32 Version: 1.1.4322.2032
CodeBase: file:///c:/windows/assembly/gac/system.windows.forms/1.0.5000.0__b77a5c561934e089/system.windows.forms.dll
----------------------------------------

************** JIT Debugging **************
To enable just in time (JIT) debugging, the config file for this
application or machine (machine.config) must have the
jitDebugging value set in the system.windows.forms section.
The application must also be compiled with debugging
enabled.

For example:

<configuration>
<system.windows.forms jitDebugging="true" />
</configuration>

When JIT debugging is enabled, any unhandled exception
will be sent to the JIT debugger registered on the machine
rather than being handled by this dialog.


It pops up even if I use the standard sumersault animation.
Don't know what to do.

I've attached my .smd if somebody else wants to try to convert it into an .anim. The length of the animation should be 2 seconds.
Attached files:
File Type: zip  hampelmann.zip (2.1 KB, 85 downloads) - View custom content
Nearly alive
Original Poster
#74 Old 14th Aug 2005 at 12:00 AM Last edited by Miche : 14th Aug 2005 at 12:29 AM.
Quote: Originally posted by Hellmaster
hello. I've done an animation with fragmotion and if I try to convert it with the converter there's an error telling me:


It pops up even if I use the standard sumersault animation.
Don't know what to do.

I've attached my .smd if somebody else wants to try to convert it into an .anim. The length of the animation should be 2 seconds.



This seems to be saying that the program doesn`t have permision on your computer to read that file. What version of windows are you running and do you have some sort of sercurity set up so programs can`t read files? (or are the permissions on the file set so it can`t be read)
Field Researcher
#75 Old 14th Aug 2005 at 3:39 PM Last edited by peter_halland : 14th Aug 2005 at 3:55 PM.
Milkshape trials with latest update of the converter: I made a new animation 10 frames rotating the arms to the front and down, then one leg up while down with the knee, finaly rotating upper part of the body to the front.
To the left in the pic the body was exported as xyz, on the right with xzy. Both arms should be moved forward. In the rest of the animation played in the game, it allways is only one arm rotating correctly, all other rotations moves exactly in the opposite way.(EDIT: As for the SimPE asci export i used the original afBodyNaked_tslocator file)
Added the smd and testanimation package file.
Screenshots
Attached files:
File Type: rar  para_testexercise_xzy_milky_03.rar (2.8 KB, 97 downloads) - View custom content
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